2018 MB S Class refresh...now base TT V6...
02-07-18, 05:05 PM
#46
Lexus Test Driver
No.
What I’m saying is that I‘m not the only one who looks for performance in this class of car and having a better engine and better performance are obviously desirable traits for SUCH A CAR per that author.
Re-read what you and I quoted from the article. I’m really not speaking in difficult metaphors.
What I’m saying is that I‘m not the only one who looks for performance in this class of car and having a better engine and better performance are obviously desirable traits for SUCH A CAR per that author.
Re-read what you and I quoted from the article. I’m really not speaking in difficult metaphors.
02-07-18, 05:26 PM
#47
No.
What I’m saying is that I‘m not the only one who looks for performance in this class of car and having a better engine and better performance are obviously desirable traits for SUCH A CAR per that author.
Re-read what you and I quoted from the article. I’m really not speaking in difficult metaphors.
What I’m saying is that I‘m not the only one who looks for performance in this class of car and having a better engine and better performance are obviously desirable traits for SUCH A CAR per that author.
Re-read what you and I quoted from the article. I’m really not speaking in difficult metaphors.
Now that we’ve carefully considered all of the rational arguments in favor of the V-6 S-class, we’ll go ahead and throw all that out the window in saying that, given the option, we’d be hard pressed not to get the V-8. Unless you’re running a livery company, the increased performance and more special character of the S560 seems to us to be worth stretching another $10,000 or so. It’s an S-class, after all—why settle for less when you can have more?
Saying the word performance and LS in the same breath or sentence is borderline sacrilege around here: the LS and that word have no business together.
And, based on reports, they literally don’t belong together either.
And, based on reports, they literally don’t belong together either.
That's funny because the LS is not mentioned in that article JDR76 posted. You brought up the LS and strung it together with the word 'performance'. This is about the S-Class V6
Well, the S class and LS are competitors no?
I was trying to draw parallels in that one can have the word used with it, but not the other.
I was trying to draw parallels in that one can have the word used with it, but not the other.
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In the case of the Benz, pony up for the V8 if 362hp and 369lbft in the S450 isn't enough. As for the LS it has 416hp and 442lbft, seems to split the difference between S450 and S560. Don't like that's there's no V8 LS right now or can't wait for one? No biggie get the Audi, it's a great car. There's plenty of choices out there.
02-07-18, 05:32 PM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
Here's the quote
you said
I said
you said
That implies you're talking about the LS vs S-Class, not necessarily S-Class V6 vs S-Class V8.
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In the case of the Benz, pony up for the V8 if 362hp and 369lbft in the S450 isn't enough. As for the LS it has 416hp and 442lbft, seems to split the difference between S450 and S560. Don't like that's there's no V8 LS right now or can't wait for one? No biggie get the Audi, it's a great car. There's plenty of choices out there.
you said
I said
you said
That implies you're talking about the LS vs S-Class, not necessarily S-Class V6 vs S-Class V8.
---
In the case of the Benz, pony up for the V8 if 362hp and 369lbft in the S450 isn't enough. As for the LS it has 416hp and 442lbft, seems to split the difference between S450 and S560. Don't like that's there's no V8 LS right now or can't wait for one? No biggie get the Audi, it's a great car. There's plenty of choices out there.
I will add, the manufacturer specs for the LS500 and the MB V8 are the same for 0-60mph times. I am sure the next gen V8 will improve on that
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 02-07-18 at 05:38 PM.
02-07-18, 05:43 PM
#49
Lexus Test Driver
How have I been defeated? Think broader terms in what’s been going on.
And what have I been saying all along: Toyota’s manufacturerer numbers are an outright mockery. They’re hilariously overrated.
In any case, yes the word performance and this class of car do go hand-in-hand. It’s not some kryptonite, except for Lexus. And when the author mentions performance upgrade, he means engine upgrade, another taboo word around here because some company just can’t build them.
And what have I been saying all along: Toyota’s manufacturerer numbers are an outright mockery. They’re hilariously overrated.
In any case, yes the word performance and this class of car do go hand-in-hand. It’s not some kryptonite, except for Lexus. And when the author mentions performance upgrade, he means engine upgrade, another taboo word around here because some company just can’t build them.
02-07-18, 05:53 PM
#50
Lexus Champion
Yes, arguing with strangers on the internets is a contest. If you think that a MB V8TT can't meet its manufacturer numbers or even exceed them in the real world, there's some more research needed on your part. When the LS shows up with its anticipated V8tt F version, then you can say something. I don't agree with Rhambler's one sided position because I think that he's simply judging a new LS in a singular way, but you need to do some due diligence on your part.
02-07-18, 05:54 PM
#51
Lexus Fanatic
Facts? Where are your numbers and specs coming from, links?
Yes, arguing with strangers on the internets is a contest. If you think that a MB V8TT can't meet its manufacturer numbers or even exceed them in the real world, there's some more research needed on your part. When the LS shows up with its anticipated V8tt F version, then you can say something. I don't agree with Rhambler's one sided position because I think that he's simply judging a new LS in a singular way, but you need to do some due diligence on your part.
Yes, arguing with strangers on the internets is a contest. If you think that a MB V8TT can't meet its manufacturer numbers or even exceed them in the real world, there's some more research needed on your part. When the LS shows up with its anticipated V8tt F version, then you can say something. I don't agree with Rhambler's one sided position because I think that he's simply judging a new LS in a singular way, but you need to do some due diligence on your part.
02-07-18, 05:57 PM
#52
Lexus Champion
Already seen those. Now come up with some real world testing of a LS V6tt vs a MB V8tt, which is what you just stated. Not personal. Just like to see some fact checking on your part vs telling other people to go and research their facts online. Post your facts vs validating favorable facts from others who favor your position.
02-07-18, 05:59 PM
#53
Lexus Test Driver
This has been proven and verified numerous times already.
If you think the MB 4.0 V8 and Lexus 3.5 V6 are equals then you are dillusional.
02-07-18, 06:02 PM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
Already seen those. Now come up with some real world testing of a LS V6tt vs a MB V8tt, which is what you just stated. Not personal. Just like to see some fact checking on your part vs telling other people to go and research their facts online. Post your facts vs validating favorable facts from others who favor your position.
Nobody knows the production models performance times are for the LS. And we don’t know what the AWD numbers are either.
For our all we know? The MB S class that was track tested might of been a prototype?
02-07-18, 06:05 PM
#55
How have I been defeated? Think broader terms in what’s been going on.
And what have I been saying all along: Toyota’s manufacturerer numbers are an outright mockery. They’re hilariously overrated.
In any case, yes the word performance and this class of car do go hand-in-hand. It’s not some kryptonite, except for Lexus. And when the author mentions performance upgrade, he means engine upgrade, another taboo word around here because some company just can’t build them.
And what have I been saying all along: Toyota’s manufacturerer numbers are an outright mockery. They’re hilariously overrated.
In any case, yes the word performance and this class of car do go hand-in-hand. It’s not some kryptonite, except for Lexus. And when the author mentions performance upgrade, he means engine upgrade, another taboo word around here because some company just can’t build them.
Thank you for admitting you were talking about the LS. If you want to create a thread about Lexus and the word Performance, or 'all engines aren't created equal', by all means please, I'd read it. But like I said a few posts ago this thread is about the Mercedes S-Class base engine, and the opportunistic jabs about Lexus don't add value to this thread. Thanks!
02-07-18, 06:17 PM
#57
Lexus Champion
Dont need to. Too many variables cannot be controlled for the numbers disparity. The MB models at Car And Driver we’re track tested. Was the LS? And not just that, the only spec available to us from Lexus is the RWD model which was a prototype.
Nobody knows the production models performance times are for the LS. And we don’t know what the AWD numbers are either.
For our all we know? The MB S class that was track tested might of been a prototype?
02-07-18, 06:32 PM
#58
Lexus Champion
Generally turbocharging a V8 gets you better results vs turbocharging a V6. The weight of the S class vs the weight of the LS are in the same zone (the LS seems porky to me), but as has been stated, the Germans routinely understate their numbers. If a S560 can run a 0-60 number in the sub-4s and 5s, that's something. That's real world. You don't care about whether that day was hot, or the test driver ate a big breakfast and had a donut afterwards which caused him to be sluggish and added too much weight, the Benz will do that all day long for numbers.
That's the problem. The LS is not meeting its manufacturer numbers while the Benz is and has been for quite a while. The LS is easily the winner for money, value and a rich interior for people who want something different. The S450 is not going to be the V6 that's being talked about. It is likely going to be a straight six electric turbo. And Toyota knows a lot about extracting performance from a straight six so you wonder if a Japanese engineer somewhere is wondering, "why didn't we do that?"
That's the problem. The LS is not meeting its manufacturer numbers while the Benz is and has been for quite a while. The LS is easily the winner for money, value and a rich interior for people who want something different. The S450 is not going to be the V6 that's being talked about. It is likely going to be a straight six electric turbo. And Toyota knows a lot about extracting performance from a straight six so you wonder if a Japanese engineer somewhere is wondering, "why didn't we do that?"
02-07-18, 06:50 PM
#59
Lexus Champion
Mercedes claims 0-60 in 4.8 (4Matic) and 5.0 (RWD) for the S450.
Car and Driver got 5.4 (4Matic) and 5.3 (RWD).
Car and Driver got 5.4 (4Matic) and 5.3 (RWD).
02-07-18, 07:18 PM
#60
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by JDR76
Mercedes claims 0-60 in 4.8 (4Matic) and 5.0 (RWD) for the S450.
Car and Driver got 5.4 (4Matic) and 5.3 (RWD).
Car and Driver got 5.4 (4Matic) and 5.3 (RWD).
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...50-test-review
Because the S class is so subliminal on many levels and many trims, it can be a weird car for numbers. The S560 can easily blast to 60 under 5 secs. Something tells me that an S class weighing in at let's say 4600 lbs with 516 lb/ft of torque that starts at 2000 rpm and ramps up from there, there's no question if it meets it's numbers. Now we have a thread that's talking about a LS that runs about 5.3 so far in real world testing.
It's back to money vs numbers vs who buys these cars. I'm still convinced that fewer S class buyers will opt for a base S450 vs some other version. These are running at $90K so then you have to spend the extra to get the biggy brag versions. Not surprising about MB, that's how they rake in the dollars. That's why I think the inline electric turbo six is the new V8.