2018 MB S Class refresh...now base TT V6...
02-07-18, 07:23 PM
#61
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
They have great lease rates on the S450, and the vast majority of what dealers stock are now 450s. If you go on MBWorld for instance people that want 560s have trouble getting them because dealers seem to be stocking far more 450s.
02-07-18, 07:31 PM
#63
Lexus Champion
I see a future test (aside from the youtube reviews). Best value for the money and best driving experience: MB S450, Audi A8, LS 500, BMW 740. Throw in the Genesis for fun. The refresh from MB is probably just to get people who want an S class but really don't like the dollars you have to spend to get the V8. I agree, though. Most people who can afford a lease rate or the dollars do not race from stoplight to stoplight or go track their S class because some car mag guy told them about the Nurburgring.
02-07-18, 07:34 PM
#64
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Which would I rather have? I’d rather have the 560, of course. If I were getting one? I’d likely get the 450. It’s about $10-15k cheaper than a comparable 560, but the lease rates are a HUGE difference. 450 is 250-300 less per month.
02-07-18, 07:48 PM
#65
Lexus Champion
The S class is already on its next generation. They'll keep the shape, which is really elegant and beautiful, but update drivetrains. The benchmark is the Bimmer 7 series for performance.
Source
The first prototypes for Mercedes-Benz’s next-generation S-Class have been spotted.The car is expected in showrooms in 2020, as a 2021 model, and we can see that Mercedes' engineers are using the BMW 7-Series as a benchmark.From earlier test mules, we know the general size and proportions will match up with the current model but there will be a slightly wider track and it also looks like the hood will be lower and longer.
The current Mercedes-Benz S-Class, the W222, was introduced for 2014 and immediately rocketed to the top of the sales chart. The 6-figure sedan racked up more than 100,000 sales in its first year and that was before the arrival of additional body styles such as the 2-door cars and extra-long Maybach and Pullman.
The current Mercedes-Benz S-Class, the W222, was introduced for 2014 and immediately rocketed to the top of the sales chart. The 6-figure sedan racked up more than 100,000 sales in its first year and that was before the arrival of additional body styles such as the 2-door cars and extra-long Maybach and Pullman.
It’s clear the new S-Class has some big shoes to fill. Luckily for it, it will adopt a new platform, in this case Mercedes’ MRA design for rear-wheel-drive cars. The current S-Class rides on an updated version of its predecessor’s architecture.It’s hard to gauge what Mercedes has in store for the new S-Class this early out. The current model just received its mid-cycle update so understandably Mercedes is shy to talk about the next one.
We already know a few things, however. Every powertrain will be electrified, either with mild-hybrid or plug-in hybrid technology, and most engines will either be a 3.0-liter inline-6 or 4.0-liter V-8. It’s not clear if there will be an electric version as Mercedes is expected to launch electric cars under the EQ sub-brand initially. In other words, don't be surprised if we see an EQS electric sedan show up.But getting back to the new S-Class, there will also be much more advanced self-driving systems, including perhaps a Level 3 system.
This is where the car can handle its own in certain situations, leaving the driver free to do other things. Should the driver need to take back control, the car will give warnings well in advance. Audi has already introduced such a system in its latest A8, though its availability will be limited due to a lack of regulations.
We’re also expecting Mercedes to offer the next S-Class in multiple body lengths, from a short wheelbase right up to the extra-long Pullman. However, there’s a good chance the current S-Class Coupe and Cabriolet will be phased out. A roomier next-generation SL-Class with 2+2 seating is expected to fill the void.
We already know a few things, however. Every powertrain will be electrified, either with mild-hybrid or plug-in hybrid technology, and most engines will either be a 3.0-liter inline-6 or 4.0-liter V-8. It’s not clear if there will be an electric version as Mercedes is expected to launch electric cars under the EQ sub-brand initially. In other words, don't be surprised if we see an EQS electric sedan show up.But getting back to the new S-Class, there will also be much more advanced self-driving systems, including perhaps a Level 3 system.
This is where the car can handle its own in certain situations, leaving the driver free to do other things. Should the driver need to take back control, the car will give warnings well in advance. Audi has already introduced such a system in its latest A8, though its availability will be limited due to a lack of regulations.
We’re also expecting Mercedes to offer the next S-Class in multiple body lengths, from a short wheelbase right up to the extra-long Pullman. However, there’s a good chance the current S-Class Coupe and Cabriolet will be phased out. A roomier next-generation SL-Class with 2+2 seating is expected to fill the void.
02-07-18, 09:45 PM
#66
Lexus Test Driver
Lame duck car. The replacement/refresh is already surfacing online. Not wise of MBZ to cram them so close together. Also hurts resale.
02-09-18, 08:16 AM
#67
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They have to start thinking about the next generation. In fact, for most luxury makes, Im sure they do so also immediately after launching the current generation. The whole cycle probably takes 5 years from building the model and doing all the testing.
02-09-18, 08:55 AM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
I don't follow MB and admit I don't have the same feel as I would with BMW. But I'm ok with the older gen 222 and the W221. It's like this guy I met at the 991 launch. He said he's had 5 911's, 2 of which were brand new (the guy looked mid 40's at the time), and if you have the money, great. But in his opinion, the sweet spot is for a 5 year old car, meaning at the time 997. With the downsizing of the motors, it could be this argument becomes even stronger...I mean a 2007 S600 for 12k, why wouldn't we....
02-09-18, 11:52 AM
#69
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I don't follow MB and admit I don't have the same feel as I would with BMW. But I'm ok with the older gen 222 and the W221. It's like this guy I met at the 991 launch. He said he's had 5 911's, 2 of which were brand new (the guy looked mid 40's at the time), and if you have the money, great. But in his opinion, the sweet spot is for a 5 year old car, meaning at the time 997. With the downsizing of the motors, it could be this argument becomes even stronger...I mean a 2007 S600 for 12k, why wouldn't we....
02-09-18, 01:28 PM
#71
Lexus Test Driver
Yes, but the difference here is the new car has already leaked. That almost never happens when a facelift is just debuting. It's normal and okay to be working on the next car, but it needs to be kept off public roads. MBZ or S-Class enthusiasts will start getting ahead of themselves with future purchase ideas, which can and will hurt the current refresh.
02-10-18, 05:34 AM
#73
The S class is already on its next generation. They'll keep the shape, which is really elegant and beautiful, but update drivetrains. The benchmark is the Bimmer 7 series for performance.
Source
Source
I had pointed out myself in early 2015, the facelift W222 design improvements had been frozen and that by the end of 2016, final concept approval would be reached. The next S-Class was frozen in mid-2017, on the heels of the W222 facelift.
As for the "W223", yes that programme has been on stream since about Fall 2014. As soon as the MY 2018 modellpflege/refresh design work was finalized in early 2015, the baton was handed to the W223 programme to begin styling the next S-Class. After 2 years, a final choice was made in late 2016. By last summer, the design was frozen about 3 years ahead of first production units.
It is a typical pattern for MB, post-W220. Between October 1998 and April 1999, the W220 was launched in Europe and North America (as MY 2000). In late 1999, the W221 entered development, with the first design sketches being made in 2000 at their Tokyo studios. Current chief designer Gorden Wagener (then junior designer) won the design competition for it in late 2001. Design was frozen and then rather unusually quickly leaked very early, back in December 2002 by Auto Spies, during a consumer marketing clinic. Terrible situation for MB, to be leaked 2.5 years before press launch. Before that, the first W220-style slapped together mules were seen in April 2002. It wasn't until May 2003 the first prototypes of the W221 were seen in disguise, so MB was angry over that leak. It was later revealed on June 20, 2005, launched in October 2005, and March 2006 in the North America.
Following 2005-06 global launch of W221, the W222 generation entered development. After the typical planning phase ended, MB designers got to work on the W221 replacement in 2007. After the typical 2 year investment in design work at many luxury and premium OEMs, a final design was set in 2009. By early 2010, mules were being run publicly. By the end of 2010, the real McCoy was first spotted strutting around Northern Europe doing winter testing. In June 2013, the first production units came off the line, about 6 months later than intended. In late July 2013, the W222 had its first customer deliveries, with the Americas waiting until September 2013.
The complaints I am seeing here are extremely unfounded, when the W222 had been delayed a bit and now with W223, MB is managing to chop time off of the development process/lead times, unlike before. Instead of the 3.5 years for the W222 from styling freeze to launch, the W223 might just take 36-42 month
Do you know why Honda moved the Accord and Civic from 4 to 5 year cycles in the late 1990s, like Toyota? It was because of too much pressure on people resources in short amounts of time and it being harder to turn a profit due always investing in new product. The 5th generation Accord was forced to enter development in Q3 1989, before the first 1990 MY cars were even in Honda showrooms that autumn. By December 18, 1990, final design for the 1994 Accord was completed (a car barely just redesigned for MY 1990).
For the 6th generation 1998 model, launched in September 1997, it overlapped significantly with development of 1994 model. Honda already struggling with an 11th hour setback in early 1992 while developing the 5G 1994 MY car, also started development of 1998 MY car in January 1993, when the '94 model wasn't even launched until 8 months later in September 1993. Engineering sign-off for the 1998 Accord was reached in March 1997 (styling final in January 1995), just 6 months before launch in September 1997. The 7th generation model was deliberately pushed back to an October 2002 launch, from late 2001 to allow a later start of development, for a 4-year programme from 1998 to 2002.
I provided that example, to show that overlapping of development work on model generations is atypical (I do not include sub-models) and deliberately avoided for this reason. BMW reported in 1992, that they tended break-even on a model generation 5/8ths of the way in. Usually at that break-even point, they finalized design work of the successor and developed/tested/verified it for production for 3 years, since it favoured budgetary concerns. It is de riguer for an automaker to release a facelift/targeted mid-cycle update/significant MY enhancements, in parallel to internal approval of the final design for that same model's successor or engineering-influenced, design freeze.
If you look at many Lexus models and check the calendar year they received a refresh/facelft, 8-9 times out of 10, the successive generation had its styling set that same calendar year or model year. (ie. 2IS had second refresh in late 2010, 3IS final design was approved by late 2010) or (2016 MY ES 350 was facelifted, as Lexus signed off on new 240B programme final design in early 2016 for MY 2019 redesign). There is a reason for this pattern, in what I personally call, the "hidden baton toss".
The original version of a car gives way to an updated intra-generational version, which then quietly hands the baton to the next generation that already has its looks established, as the update makes its public debut. Very typical of most car companies.
Yes, but the difference here is the new car has already leaked. That almost never happens when a facelift is just debuting. It's normal and okay to be working on the next car, but it needs to be kept off public roads. MBZ or S-Class enthusiasts will start getting ahead of themselves with future purchase ideas, which can and will hurt the current refresh.
Last edited by Carmaker1; 02-10-18 at 05:42 AM.
02-10-18, 10:23 AM
#75
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
I expect actual buyers couldn't care less (and if they thought about, expect) that another model is under development.about resale, irrelevant for most, who lease them.
it would not suck to drive the newly refreshed s class.
