Rhambler

When I think Lexus, I think reliability; that's the first thing that comes to my head. I'm probably not alone and there's nothing wrong with that, but this gulf in reliability has shrunk in my opinion. I think a lot of the perception Lexus has today is based partly on that built-up reputation versus major differences.

When was the last time Lexus was the luxury sales leader? Not a rhetorical question as I don't know.

Right now Lexus is trying to reinvent itself with brash styles, heavy on the angles, to attract a younger demographics I'm sure. But it's like putting a silk hat on a pig, they haven't done enough to their power trains and I think all of their dynamic force engines are more tuned along the lines of the IS200T engine: numbers look ok, but performs like that pig.

Rhambler

It wasn't very clear. They cut away to the hybrid, but I really think he was talking about the V6tt. Frankly, Lexus would be better off stating conservative numbers to begin with. There's a reason many manufacturers do (see that article I posted earlier).

RXSF

In the press release for the LS, it states the gas model at 4.5 seconds and the hybrid at 5.2. However, having watched a lot of reviews over the years, Lexus tends to overestimate their acceleration times, not the other way around

http://www.lexus.com/documents/conce...ss_Release.pdf

peteharvey

Two very different lines of thinking.
One person thinks styling is of high priority.
The other person thinks a V8 TT with flashy 0-60 times is of high priority.

In truth, the styling is the major factor that produces the sales, for example styling is really the real reason why previous generations of Benz S350 is successful despite previously using very crappy 90 degree V6 engines with very slow 0-60 times.
On the other hand V8 TT with fast 0-60 times really only appeal to enthusiasts and the low volume niche market.

MattyG

True. You won't see an LS500 as a "presidential" style VIP limo in Europe or some other country anytime soon. Styling is key. That C pillar treatment is messy and it doesn't look anything like the concept which CL members loved.

If I strictly looking at the 5LS in terms of performance, I would have no problem with this drive train setup. It's got more than enough grunt with the V6TT to make any type of car enthusiast happy. But the ultimate object of marketing a flagship halo model, is to draw interest and bragging rights. I too, worry how sales will be affected by this car's styling issues.

Agreed. I think the problem is that Akio wanted his stylists to make a very aggressive coupe-like sedan and he wants people to look at Lexus in a whole new light. But if you don't back those aggressive looks up with a flagship that looks like its ready to eat a Benz for lunch, then you end with a car that's a poser. You want to brawl out on the street, back it up.

And then there is the older conservative cruise and luxe crowd who apparently want cushy-cush. But then what's the point of the aggressive snout-spindle and all the angles and mess that's happening.

chromedome

This is the new Lexus that wants to go after the new Benz with its similarly bling S-class. Maybe Lexus also wants to pull Maserati and Porsche Panamera buyers. They could lose some sales to older, more conservative buyers but they'd be gaining sales from younger buyers who want edgy designs. It's funny that BMW now has the most sedate big sedan with the boring 7.

That C-pillar design and the swooping trunk line look almost exactly like on the ES though. As an ES driver who loves coupe-like rooflines on sedans, I'm cool with that, but I can see more conservative buyers scratching their heads about it.

Fizzboy7

I'm not seeing any ES c-pillar resemblance. The new LS has an extra post thrown in, which appears sloppy and overdone.

Bogglo

A MAN and his son were once going with their Donkey to the market. As they were walking a countryman passed them and said: “You fools, what is a Donkey for but to ride upon?”

So the Man put the Boy on the Donkey and they went on their way. But soon they passed a group of men, one of whom said: “See that lazy youngster, he lets his father walk while he rides.”

So the Man ordered his Boy to get off, and got on himself. But they hadn’t gone far when they passed two women, one of whom said to the other: “Shame on that lazy lout to let his poor little son trudge along.”

Well, the Man didn’t know what to do, but at last he took his Boy up before him on the Donkey. By this time they had come to the town, and the passers-by began to jeer and point at them. The Man stopped and asked what they were scoffing at. The men said: “Aren’t you ashamed of yourself for overloading that poor Donkey of yours—you and your hulking son?”

The Man and Boy got off and tried to think what to do. They thought and they thought, till at last they cut down a pole, tied the Donkey’s feet to it, and raised the pole and the Donkey to their shoulders. They went along amid the laughter of all who met them till they came to Market Bridge, when the Donkey, getting one of his feet loose, kicked out and caused the Boy to drop his end of the pole. In the struggle the Donkey fell over the bridge, and his fore-feet being tied together he was drowned.

“That will teach you,” said an old man who had followed them:

“PLEASE ALL, AND YOU WILL PLEASE NONE.”

peteharvey

IMO, the 5LS only really needs two (2) styling changes to make it look sexy:

1) The rear window vent glass should be deleted like: Audis, Avalon and Genesis G80 - because it looks too complex and fussy in the 5LS.
The rising curvature of the glass at the belt line towards the apex of the C pillar should be more gentle and stylish.

2) The rear face of the 5LS trunk should be slightly angled to face upwards like the: A8, current Toyota Avalon, Genesis G80, old 3GS, new LC coupe, and all the current Mercedes sedans etc, rather than facing downwards - in a sad sort of look.

Of the seven cars below, IMO the 5LS has the least attractive rear quarter view.
Though all the chrome always helps to make it look that much more upmarket.
















Rake the face of the trunk upwards towards eye level like: old 3GS, new LC Coupe, and current model Mercedes sedans:

Fizzboy7

I still agree, the excessive C-Pillar is the biggest downfall. Not so sure about your idea of an angled trunk though. Most dumpy butt designs have that angle. I rather have it cut off the way it is, which presents a decent sized trunk- a symbol of size and prestige.

mmarshall

What auto companies forget (or seem to be forgetting), though, is that today's younger people are going to be tomorrow's Grandpas and Grandmas. They may want firmly-sprung, sport-oriented stuff today, but when age starts to set in, and those young bodies aren't so young and lithe any more (and, after working for years, they will probably have more money to spend on a car), they may very well want updated versions of what were traditional soft-riding straight-luxury cars. And the companies are going to have little, if anything, to offer them.

mmarshall

C-pillars, in general, have been getting larger because of roof-strength/rollover standards.

Toys4RJill

If you read the reviews. The LC is sublime on the roads in comfort mode. The S-class is just a great riding car. I think Lexus knows that it is doing. I don't see someone who owns a Mercedes or a Lexus in their younger years moving to soft riding Buick's in their older age.

SW17LS

Exactly. In reality there are a lot of great riding cars out there on the market right now, more than there have been in some time. I don't really understand where Mike's concerns come from, given how many cars he drives. Also almost all of the crossovers out there, which are rapidly replacing sedans ride very nicely.

I have confidence Lexus can make this LS more dynamic to drive without sacrificing the ride using modern suspension technology (standard AVS, etc).

As for styling, the styling of the car is really growing on me. I like the fact that it's different. All this analysis of what other cars it should look like, the fact that it doesn't is sort of the point.

LexBob2

When you look around older drivers are obviously finding cars, CUV's and SUV's that suit them. We've had periods of record new vehicle sales which includes older drivers. You can argue that their taste in what they drive is different than it was 10-30 years ago.