Lexus LS500/LS500h
#256
Pole Position
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I dunno what the typical demographic of an LS driver is, but based on how cars often are on my a** for no reason (grandpa's car), it has to be easily 60+. I would think they'd be turned off by the looks alone, too aggressive. You might be nearing the age of the desired buyer. 6 piston/ 4 piston calipers are not for someone who wants a tame ride imho, overkill and could be a slap in the face for those who routinely do dealer service when the bill is printed...
p.s. I can't see how a 35 y.o. would have possibly been interested in the car in the pic, again, official Lexus marketing knows much better, but this says 35-55?
http://www.carscoops.com/2011/06/lex...er-buyers.html
p.s. I can't see how a 35 y.o. would have possibly been interested in the car in the pic, again, official Lexus marketing knows much better, but this says 35-55?
http://www.carscoops.com/2011/06/lex...er-buyers.html
You make a valid point on the 6 piston/4 piston calipers.
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#257
Lexus Fanatic
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This will be a turn-of for a good portion of the LS loyal fan base if this is true and repeated in other reviews and personal test drives. The video reviews I watched actually scored cabin noise very favorably while driving. I wonder if those who are turned off by it will be replaced by a crowd that's never owned an LS (different demographic starts replacing traditional demographic). I'm 38 but have driven an LS since I was 25 because I want a silent driving experience. I came close to purchasing a Model S for this reason but couldn't get past logistics of needing to charge on long drives en route to a meeting and having it throw off the day and timing of meetings. I always buy used so my next LS will be somewhere in the '13-'17 lineup, but I wouldn't buy a 500 if it' introduces more engine and/or road noise than my current 460. I'd definitely go Tesla at that point.
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#258
Lexus Fanatic
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LOL, I was 30 when I first saw the refreshed 2010 LS460 in-person. I remember it vividly - I was living at the beach, walking home from lunch and a brand new silver LS with temporary tags, lightly tinted windows and the 19" 5 stars pulled into my condo complex. I knew it was different by the turn indicator on the mirror and refreshed tail lights. I knew right then it was the car I'd ditch my 430 for some day. Fast forward 7 1/2 years and I have a 2010 460L. So it worked on me...in fact I was 5 years younger than the demographic they were trying to target!
You make a valid point on the 6 piston/4 piston calipers.
You make a valid point on the 6 piston/4 piston calipers.
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#259
Lexus Fanatic
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watched alex on auto's review... car definitely growing on me, but i want all that in an suv.
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#260
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When one imagines the enormous executive sedan that might be driven by a wealthy lawyer or banker (or their chauffeur), the mind naturally goes to the Mercedes S-Class or the BMW 7-Series. Venerable, enormous and expensive.
But for those wanting to keep their driveway a little more understated, we also have the Lexus LS. Sure, it's not as ostentatious as the big saloons from Munich and Stuttgart, but it has a dignified elegance all its own. For nearly three decades, the LS has been a discrete and dependable Japanese luxury sedan.
The new 2018 LS, perhaps thankfully, is a bit less discrete. We saw the new-look LS when it was introduced earlier this year in Detroit. Now we know how it drives. We put the 2018 LS through its paces on the traffic-clogged streets of San Francisco and over the Golden Gate Bridge to the twisty B-roads around Marin County and the legendary Skywalker Ranch.
Lexus has a brand new 3.5-liter twin-turbocharged V6 paired with a 10-speed automatic transmission, a first for a premium passenger car. It produces 416 horsepower and 442 pound-feet of torque, up from 386 hp and 367 lb-ft from the outgoing naturally aspirated 4.6-liter V8.
Lexus engineers are extremely proud of the fuel efficiency of the new engine, which required some clever technical innovations (a longer bore stroke and increased valve angle) as well as tech borrowed from Formula One, including a "laser clad valve seat" that allows for a more direct flow of air into the combustion chamber and a high "tumble ratio." In other words, Lexus figured out how to get more bang out of each gasoline-powered buck.
Fuel economy numbers are 19 city, 29 highway, and 23 combined for the RWD version and 18/27/21 for AWD, with the highway numbers particularly helped along by the 10-speed gearbox. It's a torque converter unit, but Lexus promises shift times that rival its dual-clutch-wielding competitors. The LS is no slouch, either. In RWD trim, the nearly 5,000-pound car hustles from 0-60 mph in 4.6 seconds, according to Lexus' reckoning.
The LS has the same drive-mode selector as the LC 500, offering Eco/Normal/Comfort/Sport/Sport+ modes that change a wide variety of settings, including the powertrain, suspension and steering setups, and the air conditioning system. It will even juice up the rather lovely engine sound that is, for better or worse, enhanced through the stereo.
If you really want a sporty feel out of your luxobarge, opt for the Performance Package on the V6 F Sport and you gain a variable gear ratio steering system, active rear steering, and an active stabilizer. The result is a car that drives much smaller than it is, and the LS handles the backroads with aplomb. It's no sports car, but it's fun as hell.
Drop it into Sport+ and the transmission is happy to hold gears well above 4,000 rpm, keeping the turbos spooled and the throttle responsive. Handling is sharp and, though I wouldn't call the steering "precise," it certainly gets the job done. The LS easily holds its own against the sporty versions of its competition — making a not-boring Lexus LS was one of the main goals of the engineers.
Tick the F Sport option box and you get a sportier look inside and out, including a more intricate spindle front grille (with an aerodynamic simulator feauturing 7,000 individual surfaces instead of only 5,000 for the standard LS), as well as upgraded six-piston calipers on 15.7-inch rotors up front and four-piston 14.1-inch brakes out back. That's up from four-piston/14-inch and two-piston/13.1 inch in the standard LS.
The LS Hybrid is a revelation. It uses the same multi-stage hybrid system as the LC 500h Coupe, which came out last year, combining a naturally aspirated 3.5-liter V6 with a pair of electric motor/generators and a lithium-ion battery. Total system output is 354 horsepower, which moves the LS 500h from 0-60 in 5.1 seconds. This hybrid feels quick, and might be the one to buy, especially thanks to the impressive 25/33/28 Lexus-estimated fuel economy.
There's a wacky-sounding CVT-plus-four-speed automatic transmission controlling the output, but it simulates a 10-speed transmission so well that you'd be hard pressed to know the difference.
The luxury continues inside, which Lexus says embraces the omotenashi principle of Japanese hospitality. Available are 28-way power adjustable front seats (if you can't get comfortable it's because you haven't tried all 28 settings yet), along with the usual massaging, heating, and cooling. The chauffeur-friendly executive package includes a reclining rear passenger seat with ottoman (the front seat helpfully folds out of the way so you can stretch out), and a unique cut-glass ornamentation for the door panels that is very pretty but might not age well. The rear seat can recline up to 48 degrees (the most in the segment) and can include warming air bladders that apply pressure and warmth to the shoulder and lower back. It's quite lovely.
And here's where it all goes wrong.
We're a big fan of safety systems. Car crashes are a terrible thing, but through modern technology we can minimize or prevent many crashes. So, in a luxury sedan that starts at $75,000, that Lexus says is their flagship and most advanced vehicle, why is the most advanced safety tech an optional extra?
The Lexus Safety System+ offers things like a front pre-collision system with pedestrian detection, adaptive cruise control (which disengaged itself unexpected on some particularly sharp corners), and lane-keep assist. Those are all great — but they're table stakes for even midlevel luxury cars at this point.
If you want to get into the more advanced safety tech, like front-cross-traffic alert, road-sign assist (the system can read speed limit and a few other road signs and display them to the driver), and a clever auto-steering assist to avoid pedestrians in the lane — you have to opt for the Lexus Safety System+ A (advanced) package.
We asked numerous Lexus representatives why the more advanced system wasn't offered standard on their flagship car, but never really received a satisfying response. Considering that Volvo offers tech that's nearly as advanced on its mid-$30,000's S60 sedan, we don't know that we can forgive Lexus here.
Finally, Lexus stubbornly insists on keeping the terrible touchpad interface for the infotainment system, which is annoying to use and reminds us that Lexus and Toyota are the only major manufacturer with no promised support for Apple CarPlay and Android Auto.
The stereo is tremendous, and the climate control settings can basically be ignored thanks to an ingenious feature called Lexus Concierge that automatically manages the climate settings, including heating and cooling the seats as necessary. But the infotainment system is so terrible and difficult to use that it makes it difficult to recommend the car at all.
For all the fantastic work that the engineers put into the engine and powertrain, let's be honest, the LS and all its competitors will perform more than adequately. What drivers (Lexus says LS buyers will mostly be men in their late 50's making over $250,000) will spend most of their time looking at is the godawful infotainment system.
It doesn't have to be this way, Lexus. You have a fantastic luxury car here. And you've nearly ruined it with this stupid touchpad. Why?
Lexus thinks it can sell around 12,000 LS cars per month, snagging some 15 percent of the luxury sedan market. It made an aggressive case to us that there was a value proposition in the car, starting significantly below the S-Class, 7 Series, and A8 — but we wonder how much of a difference price really makes to someone spending more than $75,000 on an executive sedan.
To be sure, the Japanese style, especially of the interior, will help the new LS stand out from the Germans a little bit, and that alone will help move some units. But as nice as the new Lexus LS is, we're hard-pressed to come up with a reason why you would buy it over an S-Class without mentioning price. And if you're trying to be price-competitive around $80,000, you're probably in for a tough time.
But for those wanting to keep their driveway a little more understated, we also have the Lexus LS. Sure, it's not as ostentatious as the big saloons from Munich and Stuttgart, but it has a dignified elegance all its own. For nearly three decades, the LS has been a discrete and dependable Japanese luxury sedan.
The new 2018 LS, perhaps thankfully, is a bit less discrete. We saw the new-look LS when it was introduced earlier this year in Detroit. Now we know how it drives. We put the 2018 LS through its paces on the traffic-clogged streets of San Francisco and over the Golden Gate Bridge to the twisty B-roads around Marin County and the legendary Skywalker Ranch.
Lexus has a brand new 3.5-liter twin-turbocharged V6 paired with a 10-speed automatic transmission, a first for a premium passenger car. It produces 416 horsepower and 442 pound-feet of torque, up from 386 hp and 367 lb-ft from the outgoing naturally aspirated 4.6-liter V8.
Lexus engineers are extremely proud of the fuel efficiency of the new engine, which required some clever technical innovations (a longer bore stroke and increased valve angle) as well as tech borrowed from Formula One, including a "laser clad valve seat" that allows for a more direct flow of air into the combustion chamber and a high "tumble ratio." In other words, Lexus figured out how to get more bang out of each gasoline-powered buck.
Fuel economy numbers are 19 city, 29 highway, and 23 combined for the RWD version and 18/27/21 for AWD, with the highway numbers particularly helped along by the 10-speed gearbox. It's a torque converter unit, but Lexus promises shift times that rival its dual-clutch-wielding competitors. The LS is no slouch, either. In RWD trim, the nearly 5,000-pound car hustles from 0-60 mph in 4.6 seconds, according to Lexus' reckoning.
The LS has the same drive-mode selector as the LC 500, offering Eco/Normal/Comfort/Sport/Sport+ modes that change a wide variety of settings, including the powertrain, suspension and steering setups, and the air conditioning system. It will even juice up the rather lovely engine sound that is, for better or worse, enhanced through the stereo.
If you really want a sporty feel out of your luxobarge, opt for the Performance Package on the V6 F Sport and you gain a variable gear ratio steering system, active rear steering, and an active stabilizer. The result is a car that drives much smaller than it is, and the LS handles the backroads with aplomb. It's no sports car, but it's fun as hell.
Drop it into Sport+ and the transmission is happy to hold gears well above 4,000 rpm, keeping the turbos spooled and the throttle responsive. Handling is sharp and, though I wouldn't call the steering "precise," it certainly gets the job done. The LS easily holds its own against the sporty versions of its competition — making a not-boring Lexus LS was one of the main goals of the engineers.
Tick the F Sport option box and you get a sportier look inside and out, including a more intricate spindle front grille (with an aerodynamic simulator feauturing 7,000 individual surfaces instead of only 5,000 for the standard LS), as well as upgraded six-piston calipers on 15.7-inch rotors up front and four-piston 14.1-inch brakes out back. That's up from four-piston/14-inch and two-piston/13.1 inch in the standard LS.
The LS Hybrid is a revelation. It uses the same multi-stage hybrid system as the LC 500h Coupe, which came out last year, combining a naturally aspirated 3.5-liter V6 with a pair of electric motor/generators and a lithium-ion battery. Total system output is 354 horsepower, which moves the LS 500h from 0-60 in 5.1 seconds. This hybrid feels quick, and might be the one to buy, especially thanks to the impressive 25/33/28 Lexus-estimated fuel economy.
There's a wacky-sounding CVT-plus-four-speed automatic transmission controlling the output, but it simulates a 10-speed transmission so well that you'd be hard pressed to know the difference.
The luxury continues inside, which Lexus says embraces the omotenashi principle of Japanese hospitality. Available are 28-way power adjustable front seats (if you can't get comfortable it's because you haven't tried all 28 settings yet), along with the usual massaging, heating, and cooling. The chauffeur-friendly executive package includes a reclining rear passenger seat with ottoman (the front seat helpfully folds out of the way so you can stretch out), and a unique cut-glass ornamentation for the door panels that is very pretty but might not age well. The rear seat can recline up to 48 degrees (the most in the segment) and can include warming air bladders that apply pressure and warmth to the shoulder and lower back. It's quite lovely.
And here's where it all goes wrong.
We're a big fan of safety systems. Car crashes are a terrible thing, but through modern technology we can minimize or prevent many crashes. So, in a luxury sedan that starts at $75,000, that Lexus says is their flagship and most advanced vehicle, why is the most advanced safety tech an optional extra?
The Lexus Safety System+ offers things like a front pre-collision system with pedestrian detection, adaptive cruise control (which disengaged itself unexpected on some particularly sharp corners), and lane-keep assist. Those are all great — but they're table stakes for even midlevel luxury cars at this point.
If you want to get into the more advanced safety tech, like front-cross-traffic alert, road-sign assist (the system can read speed limit and a few other road signs and display them to the driver), and a clever auto-steering assist to avoid pedestrians in the lane — you have to opt for the Lexus Safety System+ A (advanced) package.
We asked numerous Lexus representatives why the more advanced system wasn't offered standard on their flagship car, but never really received a satisfying response. Considering that Volvo offers tech that's nearly as advanced on its mid-$30,000's S60 sedan, we don't know that we can forgive Lexus here.
Finally, Lexus stubbornly insists on keeping the terrible touchpad interface for the infotainment system, which is annoying to use and reminds us that Lexus and Toyota are the only major manufacturer with no promised support for Apple CarPlay and Android Auto.
The stereo is tremendous, and the climate control settings can basically be ignored thanks to an ingenious feature called Lexus Concierge that automatically manages the climate settings, including heating and cooling the seats as necessary. But the infotainment system is so terrible and difficult to use that it makes it difficult to recommend the car at all.
For all the fantastic work that the engineers put into the engine and powertrain, let's be honest, the LS and all its competitors will perform more than adequately. What drivers (Lexus says LS buyers will mostly be men in their late 50's making over $250,000) will spend most of their time looking at is the godawful infotainment system.
It doesn't have to be this way, Lexus. You have a fantastic luxury car here. And you've nearly ruined it with this stupid touchpad. Why?
Lexus thinks it can sell around 12,000 LS cars per month, snagging some 15 percent of the luxury sedan market. It made an aggressive case to us that there was a value proposition in the car, starting significantly below the S-Class, 7 Series, and A8 — but we wonder how much of a difference price really makes to someone spending more than $75,000 on an executive sedan.
To be sure, the Japanese style, especially of the interior, will help the new LS stand out from the Germans a little bit, and that alone will help move some units. But as nice as the new Lexus LS is, we're hard-pressed to come up with a reason why you would buy it over an S-Class without mentioning price. And if you're trying to be price-competitive around $80,000, you're probably in for a tough time.
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#261
Lexus Champion
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Lexus thinks it can sell around 12,000 LS cars per month, snagging some 15 percent of the luxury sedan market. It made an aggressive case to us that there was a value proposition in the car, starting significantly below the S-Class, 7 Series, and A8 — but we wonder how much of a difference price really makes to someone spending more than $75,000 on an executive sedan.
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#265
Lead Lap
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i haven't driven this car yet obviously, but i guarantee it won't have the same off the line neck-snapping response that my 2 decade older LS has... which, if you ask me, is very important for a luxury car to be able to quickly and decisively pass the peasantry vehicles around it lol...
i'm one of the biggest fans of the LS there is, and believe me i want more than anything for this new one to scare the crap out of it's european rivals just like the LS 400 did nearly 30 years ago now. i like to consider myself a relatively progressive person, and i'd love to be able to say we don't need V8s anymore, but oh man every time i drive my LS i'm reminded what an awesome engine configuration the n/a V8 is
i know full well that on paper this new engine is better than the outgoing one in basically every way, but on paper and real life tend to tell different stories
i'm one of the biggest fans of the LS there is, and believe me i want more than anything for this new one to scare the crap out of it's european rivals just like the LS 400 did nearly 30 years ago now. i like to consider myself a relatively progressive person, and i'd love to be able to say we don't need V8s anymore, but oh man every time i drive my LS i'm reminded what an awesome engine configuration the n/a V8 is
i know full well that on paper this new engine is better than the outgoing one in basically every way, but on paper and real life tend to tell different stories
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#266
Lexus Fanatic
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This TT V6 will have much more neck snapping thrust response than your LS. It has much more power, and full torque is available at a much lower RPM. The loss of 2 cylinders doesn't negate all of that.
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#267
Lexus Champion
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I still think Lexus should have gone with a V8, even a twin turbo version.
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#268
Lexus Fanatic
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i'm sure it will feel different... the TTV6 will likely feel less responsive for about the first half second compared to the V8 but then you're likely to feel a surge of power and torque in the 5LS that's WAY stronger than the current LS / V8.
will it please everyone? likely not, but will most think it's great, yes.
i personally HATE the idea of piped in / enhanced sound effects though... hopefully that can be turned off.
will it please everyone? likely not, but will most think it's great, yes.
i personally HATE the idea of piped in / enhanced sound effects though... hopefully that can be turned off.
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#269
Lexus Fanatic
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I had the LS400 in question, and the similar TTV6 cars I’ve driven such as the less powerful G90 and the CT6 with the 3.0TT feel considerably snappier and faster than an old LS400
i believe piped in sound is only In Sport mode. And yes you can turn that off in the custom modes to get the other attributes of sport without the additional sound.
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#270
drives cars
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i'm sure it will feel different... the TTV6 will likely feel less responsive for about the first half second compared to the V8 but then you're likely to feel a surge of power and torque in the 5LS that's WAY stronger than the current LS / V8.
will it please everyone? likely not, but will most think it's great, yes.
i personally HATE the idea of piped in / enhanced sound effects though... hopefully that can be turned off.
will it please everyone? likely not, but will most think it's great, yes.
i personally HATE the idea of piped in / enhanced sound effects though... hopefully that can be turned off.
edit: Or it's possible they only did it electronically so that it could be turned off...
Last edited by arentz07; 09-27-17 at 03:28 PM.
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