Lexus LS500/LS500h
#316
On the other side, there are buyers where $15k, $25k, even $50k is irrelevant. They want the highest end car and place no emphasis on the value. They just want the highest end car (whether they can truly afford it is another story). I saw this a lot in my prior life where I sold high end capital equipment to radiologists. Certain people have egos to where they refuse to buy anything other than the highest-end model possible. I'd see it in their car in the parking lot and also in every purchasing decision they made in their private practice. Even when it contradicted common/business sense, and often against my advice, they were often too proud to have anything other than top-of-the-line equipment. Most interesting is they were always the worst negotiators- their pride got in the way of the negotiation because they didn't want me to think they couldn't afford something. Very interesting to observe.
The manufacturer creates breadth in the product line to cover all of their bases to sell the most cars. It's smart business.
#317
This will be a turn-of for a good portion of the LS loyal fan base if this is true and repeated in other reviews and personal test drives. The video reviews I watched actually scored cabin noise very favorably while driving. I wonder if those who are turned off by it will be replaced by a crowd that's never owned an LS (different demographic starts replacing traditional demographic). I'm 38 but have driven an LS since I was 25 because I want a silent driving experience. I came close to purchasing a Model S for this reason but couldn't get past logistics of needing to charge on long drives en route to a meeting and having it throw off the day and timing of meetings. I always buy used so my next LS will be somewhere in the '13-'17 lineup, but I wouldn't buy a 500 if it' introduces more engine and/or road noise than my current 460. I'd definitely go Tesla at that point.
According to him at 50MPH:
G90 68DB
LS500 68DB
G80 69DB
LS500h 69DB
Lacross 70DB
CT6 70DB
AvalonH 70DB
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 09-29-17 at 07:09 AM.
#318
Thats a great way of putting it, and you explain what I'm saying better than I did. Its not about dollars, its about value. While the S Class is a better car no doubt in my mind, and its a car I would rather have, I don't see that additional $20-25,000 in value (which is really what it is) over the LS. I'd pay $10,000 more.
The G90 is a similar situation relative to the LS. I think the LS is worth $10,000 more than the G90. So, a $70,000 G90 vs an $80,000 LS500, I would choose the LS.
Wealthy people care about value more than dollars. "Value" doesn't mean cheap, it means worth.
There certainly are people out there for whom money is irrelevant, but thats not the typical or target buyer for this car, or the S Class even.
The G90 is a similar situation relative to the LS. I think the LS is worth $10,000 more than the G90. So, a $70,000 G90 vs an $80,000 LS500, I would choose the LS.
Wealthy people care about value more than dollars. "Value" doesn't mean cheap, it means worth.
There certainly are people out there for whom money is irrelevant, but thats not the typical or target buyer for this car, or the S Class even.
#319
Which is what makes the $75k starting point so interesting, especially for a LWB car which has always commanded some sort of premium. Lexus is banking on an easy $5k value justification over the G90. It will be interesting to see how Hyundai/Genesis reacts.
#320
Did a quick look up of the Alex on Autos reviews (I am not a fan of his style) however he does report DB readings which is better than just saying its quiet or its not.
According to him at 50MPH:
G90 68DB
LS500 68DB
G80 69DB
LS500h 69DB
Lacross 70DB
CT6 70DB
AvalonH 70DB
According to him at 50MPH:
G90 68DB
LS500 68DB
G80 69DB
LS500h 69DB
Lacross 70DB
CT6 70DB
AvalonH 70DB
#321
Sound pressure readings are nice as a reference but there is way more going on when it comes to perceived quietness.
#322
For comparison, no two cars will ever be exactly identical in release date - here, we have a four year old S Class compared to an all new 5LS in 2018.
No two cars will ever have identical dimensions, weight, engine capacity, HP, nor 0-60 times, and nor will the price ever be identical either.
However, we can still compare two cars despite their differences, whether small or large.
It's just a matter of compensating for the differences.
Hence, if when we compare a 3 year old S Class which has recently had its midlife facelift, debut in 2014 with 25k units, then 2015 with 21k, then 2016 with 18k, and in 2017 is heading for an estimated 15k units - we would theoretically compensate and expect that in 2018, a brand new 5LS range to sell much better at least than a then 4 year old S Class range.
In 2018, if 5LS debuts will lower sales than S Class, then it is an easy fail for 5LS, considering the age of the S Class range, and its much higher prices.
No two cars will ever have identical dimensions, weight, engine capacity, HP, nor 0-60 times, and nor will the price ever be identical either.
However, we can still compare two cars despite their differences, whether small or large.
It's just a matter of compensating for the differences.
Hence, if when we compare a 3 year old S Class which has recently had its midlife facelift, debut in 2014 with 25k units, then 2015 with 21k, then 2016 with 18k, and in 2017 is heading for an estimated 15k units - we would theoretically compensate and expect that in 2018, a brand new 5LS range to sell much better at least than a then 4 year old S Class range.
In 2018, if 5LS debuts will lower sales than S Class, then it is an easy fail for 5LS, considering the age of the S Class range, and its much higher prices.
#323
Interesting enough, he has a list compiled of the quietest cars. Buick Lacrosse 2105 measured 67db, while the GX460 is quietest Lexus at 67db
http://alexonautos.com/cabin-noise/
#324
Regardless. It beats the whole idea of "Its quiet" Alex on Autos at least has some documented evidence. I will say, I do not like his reviews or his style.
No problem, I have always been interested in the actual readings of how quiet a car is. Anyone can just saw a car is quiet, but to what reference level.
Interesting enough, he has a list compiled of the quietest cars. Buick Lacrosse 2105 measured 67db, while the GX460 is quietest Lexus at 67db
http://alexonautos.com/cabin-noise/
No problem, I have always been interested in the actual readings of how quiet a car is. Anyone can just saw a car is quiet, but to what reference level.
Interesting enough, he has a list compiled of the quietest cars. Buick Lacrosse 2105 measured 67db, while the GX460 is quietest Lexus at 67db
http://alexonautos.com/cabin-noise/
#326
It's rather naive to assume people who have wealth don't care about money, they do.
They care about it much more than those who have nothing.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 09-29-17 at 07:25 PM.
#327
When the 500h is running in an EV mode I'd agree, but the ICE is NA and a bit more perky in terms of noise than the 3.5L TTV6 which could be more muted because of the turbos.
#328
Many of the very wealthy don't care much for the trappings of wealth. Warren Buffett now drives a 2014 Cadillac XTS for which he traded a 2006 DTS. He has so much money that he doesn't need to impress anyone. Guessing what the very wealthy will do is impossible because they can be very diverse.
Steve
Steve
#329
Many of the very wealthy don't care much for the trappings of wealth. Warren Buffett now drives a 2014 Cadillac XTS for which he traded a 2006 DTS. He has so much money that he doesn't need to impress anyone. Guessing what the very wealthy will do is impossible because they can be very diverse.
Steve
Steve
#330
Not necessarily. Active Noise Cancellation, which is used by several different manufacturers today, tends to block even the small irritating noises inside.