jrmckinley

It's an interesting debate. On one side, I argue that there's a value decision that most of us make. For example, I can afford to buy a new luxury sedan (S class, LS500, 750) but I choose not to because I don't see the value in it- for me there is more value in buying used and shifting the remaining money I "saved" by buying used vs. new into investments and experiences (vacations, etc). What I'm reading from your post is you don't see $15k in extra value in the S class. You may also not see a $10k value (or whatever) in bumping up within the LS family to add certain features to the car. You look at the price in total or broken down into monthly payments and don't see it's worth it.

On the other side, there are buyers where $15k, $25k, even $50k is irrelevant. They want the highest end car and place no emphasis on the value. They just want the highest end car (whether they can truly afford it is another story). I saw this a lot in my prior life where I sold high end capital equipment to radiologists. Certain people have egos to where they refuse to buy anything other than the highest-end model possible. I'd see it in their car in the parking lot and also in every purchasing decision they made in their private practice. Even when it contradicted common/business sense, and often against my advice, they were often too proud to have anything other than top-of-the-line equipment. Most interesting is they were always the worst negotiators- their pride got in the way of the negotiation because they didn't want me to think they couldn't afford something. Very interesting to observe.

The manufacturer creates breadth in the product line to cover all of their bases to sell the most cars. It's smart business.

Toys4RJill

Did a quick look up of the Alex on Autos reviews (I am not a fan of his style) however he does report DB readings which is better than just saying its quiet or its not.

According to him at 50MPH:

G90 68DB
LS500 68DB
G80 69DB
LS500h 69DB
Lacross 70DB
CT6 70DB
AvalonH 70DB

SW17LS

Thats a great way of putting it, and you explain what I'm saying better than I did. Its not about dollars, its about value. While the S Class is a better car no doubt in my mind, and its a car I would rather have, I don't see that additional $20-25,000 in value (which is really what it is) over the LS. I'd pay $10,000 more.

The G90 is a similar situation relative to the LS. I think the LS is worth $10,000 more than the G90. So, a $70,000 G90 vs an $80,000 LS500, I would choose the LS.

Wealthy people care about value more than dollars. "Value" doesn't mean cheap, it means worth.

There certainly are people out there for whom money is irrelevant, but thats not the typical or target buyer for this car, or the S Class even.

jrmckinley

Which is what makes the $75k starting point so interesting, especially for a LWB car which has always commanded some sort of premium. Lexus is banking on an easy $5k value justification over the G90. It will be interesting to see how Hyundai/Genesis reacts.

jrmckinley

Very interesting- thanks for taking the time to compile this. I'm sure there's a range of error in the reading because you wouldn't think the 500h would be higher than the 500.

LeX2K

Sound pressure readings are nice as a reference but there is way more going on when it comes to perceived quietness.

peteharvey

For comparison, no two cars will ever be exactly identical in release date - here, we have a four year old S Class compared to an all new 5LS in 2018.
No two cars will ever have identical dimensions, weight, engine capacity, HP, nor 0-60 times, and nor will the price ever be identical either.
However, we can still compare two cars despite their differences, whether small or large.
It's just a matter of compensating for the differences.

Hence, if when we compare a 3 year old S Class which has recently had its midlife facelift, debut in 2014 with 25k units, then 2015 with 21k, then 2016 with 18k, and in 2017 is heading for an estimated 15k units - we would theoretically compensate and expect that in 2018, a brand new 5LS range to sell much better at least than a then 4 year old S Class range.
In 2018, if 5LS debuts will lower sales than S Class, then it is an easy fail for 5LS, considering the age of the S Class range, and its much higher prices.

Toys4RJill

Regardless. It beats the whole idea of "Its quiet" Alex on Autos at least has some documented evidence. I will say, I do not like his reviews or his style.

No problem, I have always been interested in the actual readings of how quiet a car is. Anyone can just saw a car is quiet, but to what reference level.

Interesting enough, he has a list compiled of the quietest cars. Buick Lacrosse 2105 measured 67db, while the GX460 is quietest Lexus at 67db
http://alexonautos.com/cabin-noise/

situman

Quietness also has its drawbacks. It means you can hear every little imperfections inside the car. From the slightest creak and groan of the structure to the plastics rattling.

Toys4RJill

I didn't see Alex on Autos complain about all the imperfections you mentioned.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

except we were discussing 15k and now 25k which is 17% of 75k, not 30%... just saying.

most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. an ipad is as or more powerful than a lot of laptops these days. dell makes laptops that cost up to $5K and there are people who buy them, but should they be insulted?

that's true. and sometimes wealthy people have completely irrational feelings about money... millions in assets and they still care about the cost of gasoline. i had a rich neighbor who needed some fencing fixed... the poor guy who came to give a quote said it would be $10/hr to work on it, and the neighbor said he would only let him do it if the guy would do it for $9. it really irritated me, his abuse, just because he could... he was someone i believe didn't grow up wealthy, but wanted everyone to know and exert his control on those less wealthy.

that is also completely ridiculous. if you have nothing you will think of little else than getting the money to eat, have cover, etc. rich people may obsess on money just because but your statement is absurd not to mention insensitive.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

When the 500h is running in an EV mode I'd agree, but the ICE is NA and a bit more perky in terms of noise than the 3.5L TTV6 which could be more muted because of the turbos.

oldcajun

Many of the very wealthy don't care much for the trappings of wealth. Warren Buffett now drives a 2014 Cadillac XTS for which he traded a 2006 DTS. He has so much money that he doesn't need to impress anyone. Guessing what the very wealthy will do is impossible because they can be very diverse.
Steve

Mr. Burns

If Warren Buffet despite his wealth wants to spend his last years driving an XTS, it's his call. But it doesn't represent all wealthy people.

mmarshall

Not necessarily. Active Noise Cancellation, which is used by several different manufacturers today, tends to block even the small irritating noises inside.