Lexus LS500/LS500h
01-03-18, 05:37 PM
#781
Lead Lap
I`d say were just getting started, lets see how this pans out, maybe in a decade genesis might be up there with the best of em.
01-03-18, 05:40 PM
#782
Lexus Champion
And what's the breakdown of those numbers you're touting? ES and RX right? Some NX maybe. We're talking about flagship RWD-based vehicles here, not necessarily some nice FWD augmented rebadged vehicles.
01-03-18, 05:45 PM
#783
Lexus Champion
Also, the G80 outsold the GS over 2 to 1 last year (16,196 vs. 7,773).
Last edited by LexBob2; 01-03-18 at 05:53 PM.
01-03-18, 05:48 PM
#784
Lexus Fanatic
True, but to play advocate here but Buick about decade ago was right behind pontiac on the chopping block....Somehow they reinvented themselves in the Chinese Market, and well today Buicks make up 27% of all sales in China for GM corp...
I`d say were just getting started, lets see how this pans out, maybe in a decade genesis might be up there with the best of em.
I`d say were just getting started, lets see how this pans out, maybe in a decade genesis might be up there with the best of em.
Buick, though, had (and still has) plenty of dealerships. That's the Achilles heel for Genesis right now....not enough retail outlets, particularly for the G90.
A little off-topic, maybe, but the main difference between Buick and Pontiac, and why Pontiac got the ax instead of Buick, is that, except for the nice Holden-derived pontiacs, the division essentially sold junk. And even the nice Holden derived GTO and G8 had trouble selling. Buick, meanwhile, while getting more popular in China, also had a loyal (if somewhat aged) cadre of buyers in the U.S.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-03-18 at 05:52 PM.
01-03-18, 05:53 PM
#785
Lexus Fanatic
Good point. The LS, no matter how nice a machine it is, is simply not a bread-and-butter vehicle like the ES and RX.
01-03-18, 06:01 PM
#786
Lexus Fanatic
It's too early to tell if Genesis will succeed or not but early indications are favorable that it will. For 2017 the G90 outsold the LS 4,398 to 4,096 so it's trending in the right direction for them. As mentioned there is room for both Lexus and Genesis, specifically the LS and G90. They need their CUV and SUV ASAP.
Also, the G80 outsold the GS over 2 to 1 last year (16,196 vs. 7,773).
Also, the G80 outsold the GS over 2 to 1 last year (16,196 vs. 7,773).
Hang on a second. Genesis under Hyundai sold 31k in 2015, 23K in 2016, and both the G80/90 under the new nomenclature sold 20k in 2017. Not really sure they are off to a promising start. Plus, they sell for less.
01-03-18, 06:02 PM
#787
Lexus Fanatic
People are willing to pay for FWD under a luxury brand. I look at the brand as a whole.
01-03-18, 06:17 PM
#788
Lexus Champion
That's fine, except this is a discussion about the RWD based 5LS and its competitors which include the Genesis G90. There is absolutely no way anybody who's driving an ES thinks that its superior to a G90. RX buyers aren't in the same category as Merc ML and so on. You're conflating different models under some generic brand designation.
01-03-18, 06:27 PM
#790
Lexus Champion
Because of the numbers you are touting. You introduced the number argument as a counter to advocate that Genesis is not as good/popular as Lexus because of sheer numbers. Context matters. Your words: "alternative to MB, BMW or Audi". That's where the argument has an issue. The Germans are primarily RWD based sellers and ES/RX are simply luxe alternatives based on Toyota products. The Audis are FWD but longitudinal drivetrains. Genesis is RWD based and lower end right now.
01-03-18, 08:33 PM
#791
Lead Lap
Buick, though, had (and still has) plenty of dealerships. That's the Achilles heel for Genesis right now....not enough retail outlets, particularly for the G90.
A little off-topic, maybe, but the main difference between Buick and Pontiac, and why Pontiac got the ax instead of Buick, is that, except for the nice Holden-derived pontiacs, the division essentially sold junk. And even the nice Holden derived GTO and G8 had trouble selling. Buick, meanwhile, while getting more popular in China, also had a loyal (if somewhat aged) cadre of buyers in the U.S.
A little off-topic, maybe, but the main difference between Buick and Pontiac, and why Pontiac got the ax instead of Buick, is that, except for the nice Holden-derived pontiacs, the division essentially sold junk. And even the nice Holden derived GTO and G8 had trouble selling. Buick, meanwhile, while getting more popular in China, also had a loyal (if somewhat aged) cadre of buyers in the U.S.
In addition, I personally feel they share too much. Genesis Luxury brand, currently saloons only. Then you introduce Kia Stinger, RWD performance saloon....? From that i interpret,
Hyundai=Toyota, Genesis=Lexus and Kia=cheaper Genesis?
Dealership network limitations can also be overcome by more modern techno chic setups, especially how low volume Genesis is currently, Move the dealership to the customer. Bring a demo to the customer, let them customize or select a vehicle of their offering and deliver. Their service adheres to this concept kind of already
01-03-18, 08:45 PM
#792
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
'People' huh? Well, not to the 700k in u.s. that bought hyundai/kia/genesis last year.
True, there's overlap and some confusion... kia's k900 (which didn't sell well) is very luxurious.But i don't look at genesis as static and limited for good, they're just getting started. And the g70 will bring a luxury version of the stinger to genesis.
In addition, I personally feel they share too much. Genesis Luxury brand, currently saloons only. Then you introduce Kia Stinger, RWD performance saloon....? From that i interpret,
Hyundai=Toyota, Genesis=Lexus and Kia=cheaper Genesis?
Hyundai=Toyota, Genesis=Lexus and Kia=cheaper Genesis?
Last edited by bitkahuna; 01-04-18 at 06:39 AM.
01-03-18, 09:28 PM
#793
As I understand their long term plans, Hyundai will be the base cars, KIA a step up, and Genesis at the top. Sort of GM with Chevy, Buick, and Cadillac. Like GM, there will also be some overlap.
Last edited by oldcajun; 01-03-18 at 09:43 PM.
01-04-18, 06:40 AM
#794
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
01-04-18, 08:08 AM
#795
Lexus Fanatic
Having said that, though, except for its somewhat cheap interior dash/door-trim materials and less sound insulation than in earlier versions, the ES is a solid buy for the money. I considered one myself before I chose the Lacrosse.