Lexus LS500/LS500h
01-07-18, 12:59 PM
#841
However, what we have to be very cautious about the number of posters on ClubLexus Forum who are actually Lexus dealers and Lexus sales reps who deliberately distort/conceal the truth to promote their product for financial gain.
01-07-18, 01:43 PM
#843
Lexus Fanatic
01-07-18, 01:55 PM
#844
Lexus Fanatic
The other part of it is what is the benefit to an individual poster to go to the effort and energy of posting a bunch of fake stuff to increase sales? Why would an individual salesperson take that time and effort when its extremely unlikely anything they post would result in them specifically making a sale, with the forum being a multi-national thing.
01-07-18, 02:38 PM
#845
Lexus Champion
I read a lot of the reviews, and they're mostly of the F-Sport model when talking about harder suspension. It should also be noted these are pre-production cars that have been put to journalists over the past few months and tested on, so who knows how much of a representation they are to the final model. All of the forum talk is basically meaningless to their sales overall imo.
Last edited by TF109B; 01-07-18 at 02:41 PM.
01-07-18, 03:01 PM
#846
Lexus Fanatic
I’ve read and watched numerous reviews of the non F Sport car even with the air suspension.
01-07-18, 04:50 PM
#848
Lexus Fanatic
Nobody is saying its going to be "as stiff as a Civic", and no reviews have said that, they just say its a very different, more dynamic car than the LS has been historically, which doesn't work for me as a consumer. Hence why I bought one of the last 17 LS460Ls.
01-07-18, 05:06 PM
#849
Well, I have not personally driven the new LS but my brother was invited to drive one at the local race track a few months back and he clearly said that even with the runflats, the new gen. LS500 rode considerably better than the outgoing model. He said it was a night and day difference. They also got to drive the new 7-Series, S-Class, A8, and Tesla S. He said the LS was his favorite and the Audi came in second. Mercedes fell way short, BMW was not worth mentioning, and the Tesla was a complete joke in driving dynamics.
This is after several hours on the racecourse with these cars.
This is after several hours on the racecourse with these cars.
01-07-18, 05:12 PM
#850
Lexus Fanatic
Thats the first I've heard of that, its certainly encouraging. Although, I wound wonder if he has driven the outgoing car on a smooth racetrack?
I would also question the "night and day difference". I don't see how thats possible, having driven everything in this segment back to back multiple times recently, nothing stands out as riding a "night and day difference" from the outgoing car or any other car in the segment really. For that to be the case the LS500 would have to be far and away the best riding car in the segment, and no reviews would indicate that to be the case.
As an example, this MotorTrend comparison:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/genes...ontinental-30/
This is echoed over and over again in reviews.
I haven't driven the LS500, but I have obviously driven the LS460, the G90 and the 7 Series, and I agree with their assessment of the 7 and G90, and I know how I feel they compare to my LS460, ergo I have confidence that the LS500 is firmer riding and sportier than what the LS has been historically.
I would also question the "night and day difference". I don't see how thats possible, having driven everything in this segment back to back multiple times recently, nothing stands out as riding a "night and day difference" from the outgoing car or any other car in the segment really. For that to be the case the LS500 would have to be far and away the best riding car in the segment, and no reviews would indicate that to be the case.
As an example, this MotorTrend comparison:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/genes...ontinental-30/
Driven back to back with the BMW, Genesis, and Lincoln, the Lexus feels an order of magnitude sportier than the rest of the pack.
The LS 500’s steering is much more new-gen and away from the numb appliances of yore. Sporty, direct, and with a stiffness that will be unfamiliar to the Lexus legions, the LS 500 is a good set of tires away from being a true canyon carver. Our test car’s air suspension sorted out big bumps but struggled with small, high-frequency bumps such as the Botts’ dots that line California lanes. “We’re on pretty new pavement here, and I’m still getting lots of small vibrations from all the little bumps in the road you can’t see from the driver’s seat,” Evans said.
Although the G90 is just a nose behind the LS 500 at the track, it couldn’t feel more different on the road. Everything about the Genesis G90 is as smooth as a Marvin Gaye ballad. Its engine and transmission are particularly noteworthy for how effortless they make the process of driving.
Its ride falls between the 740e and LS 500; it doesn’t have the BMW’s solidity, but it handles bumps both large and small ever so slightly better than the Lexus.
Although its powertrain could perhaps use a bit of fine tuning, the Bimmer’s ride and handling is among the best here. The 740e’s steering is light and direct. The suspension is as adept at minimizing body roll on tight canyon roads as it is eating up strips of the rotten cliffside pavement eroding into the sea. “This is how you do luxury sedan ride and handling,” said associate editor Scott Evans. “The little bumps barely register, and the big ones are one and done. No floatiness at all.”
I haven't driven the LS500, but I have obviously driven the LS460, the G90 and the 7 Series, and I agree with their assessment of the 7 and G90, and I know how I feel they compare to my LS460, ergo I have confidence that the LS500 is firmer riding and sportier than what the LS has been historically.
Last edited by SW17LS; 01-07-18 at 05:20 PM.
01-07-18, 05:12 PM
#851
When Mr Toyoda's grandson took over presidency of TMC in 2009, he stipulated that Toyota will no longer make boring vehicles, and that TMC products will now have inspired styling and inspired dynamics - just like his Maserati that he races at the Nurburgring.
I test drove the latest entry level model GS200t with 17" wheels, and it seems to be just as firmly sprung & damped as my GS350 with electronic variable shock absorbers - though the entry level model uses much more forgiving 17" wheels with taller profile and taller side walled tires.
My GS350 Luxury actually uses the exact same spring, damper and roll bar part numbers as the F Sport model; the latter being different only with wheels, tires, front brakes, rear wheel steering, and software settings for the electronic dampers.
What I really hope with the 5LS is that Lexus uses totally different spring and damper settings for the Luxury as opposed to the F Sport model.
I test drove the latest entry level model GS200t with 17" wheels, and it seems to be just as firmly sprung & damped as my GS350 with electronic variable shock absorbers - though the entry level model uses much more forgiving 17" wheels with taller profile and taller side walled tires.
My GS350 Luxury actually uses the exact same spring, damper and roll bar part numbers as the F Sport model; the latter being different only with wheels, tires, front brakes, rear wheel steering, and software settings for the electronic dampers.
What I really hope with the 5LS is that Lexus uses totally different spring and damper settings for the Luxury as opposed to the F Sport model.
01-07-18, 05:16 PM
#852
Lexus Champion
http://www.marketingminefield.co.uk/stealth-marketing/
There are couple of times I thought I saw this on CL in Car Chat and on the vehicle forums with posters who weren't CL sponsers and not identified as such in their signature. One was someone who posted vehicle invoices in their pics and even the dealer plate showing the phone number and location of the vehicles for sale. But given that these were one-off posts, it wasn't worth really complaining about it. The marketing or booster effort would be minimal at best.
For eg. there's a poster who is very enthusiastic about the LS 500 and certainly promotes it but in that person's signature you see that they might be a Lexus marketing type person or a dealership employee. And that's perfectly okay to do that.
The alternative would be to ban anybody who works for Toyota/Lexus and that would not be very helpful, since these folks can also add some valuable insights into new models out in the real world vs just magazine reviewers.
01-07-18, 06:22 PM
#853
Thats the first I've heard of that, its certainly encouraging. Although, I wound wonder if he has driven the outgoing car on a smooth racetrack?
I would also question the "night and day difference". I don't see how thats possible, having driven everything in this segment back to back multiple times recently, nothing stands out as riding a "night and day difference" from the outgoing car or any other car in the segment really. For that to be the case the LS500 would have to be far and away the best riding car in the segment, and no reviews would indicate that to be the case.
As an example, this MotorTrend comparison:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/genes...ontinental-30/
This is echoed over and over again in reviews.
I haven't driven the LS500, but I have obviously driven the LS460, the G90 and the 7 Series, and I agree with their assessment of the 7 and G90, and I know how I feel they compare to my LS460, ergo I have confidence that the LS500 is firmer riding and sportier than what the LS has been historically.
I would also question the "night and day difference". I don't see how thats possible, having driven everything in this segment back to back multiple times recently, nothing stands out as riding a "night and day difference" from the outgoing car or any other car in the segment really. For that to be the case the LS500 would have to be far and away the best riding car in the segment, and no reviews would indicate that to be the case.
As an example, this MotorTrend comparison:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/genes...ontinental-30/
This is echoed over and over again in reviews.
I haven't driven the LS500, but I have obviously driven the LS460, the G90 and the 7 Series, and I agree with their assessment of the 7 and G90, and I know how I feel they compare to my LS460, ergo I have confidence that the LS500 is firmer riding and sportier than what the LS has been historically.
In Asia, the TTV6 option is mostly not offered, the only choices being the a Hybrid, or the LS350 with the current GS motor. That puts it in a tax bracket disadvantage in Asia, but already much less so than the even larger capacity previous model, but also squarely into the GS class. Discussion on the web is very US centric in relation to the LS500....but I wonder if the main focus might of the LS is indeed to straddle the GS/LS area, which explains its pricing and target market, and also the rumours of the GS's demise.LS500 reviews in Asia seems to summise that while the car is not leader of the pack among the Germans, it is now finally broadly competitive with the other current non-German rivals. Thus it could appeal to customers in that segment. Another point is that those with a GS now who wish to upgrade have a half step option without needing to go all the way with the Germans. In having to build a car for the world markets, it could be the exact bullseye they were aiming for....in other words, not really an S class rival. And potentially for the engine development it seems pointless for them to to have a class leader when only the US market appreciates it.So, it could be that in the so called face off with the Euros Toyota finally blinked. Kia, of course, seem to be heading the opposite way, facing the Germans much more head on. And they certainly has the potential to succeed, over the conservative Toyota strategy, since giving up competing with the Euros would mean no longer a need for the GS, and the Stinger seems more than a plausible car to step up.
01-07-18, 07:31 PM
#854
Thats the first I've heard of that, its certainly encouraging. Although, I wound wonder if he has driven the outgoing car on a smooth racetrack?
I would also question the "night and day difference". I don't see how thats possible, having driven everything in this segment back to back multiple times recently, nothing stands out as riding a "night and day difference" from the outgoing car or any other car in the segment really. For that to be the case the LS500 would have to be far and away the best riding car in the segment, and no reviews would indicate that to be the case.
As an example, this MotorTrend comparison:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/genes...ontinental-30/
This is echoed over and over again in reviews.
I haven't driven the LS500, but I have obviously driven the LS460, the G90 and the 7 Series, and I agree with their assessment of the 7 and G90, and I know how I feel they compare to my LS460, ergo I have confidence that the LS500 is firmer riding and sportier than what the LS has been historically.
I would also question the "night and day difference". I don't see how thats possible, having driven everything in this segment back to back multiple times recently, nothing stands out as riding a "night and day difference" from the outgoing car or any other car in the segment really. For that to be the case the LS500 would have to be far and away the best riding car in the segment, and no reviews would indicate that to be the case.
As an example, this MotorTrend comparison:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/genes...ontinental-30/
This is echoed over and over again in reviews.
I haven't driven the LS500, but I have obviously driven the LS460, the G90 and the 7 Series, and I agree with their assessment of the 7 and G90, and I know how I feel they compare to my LS460, ergo I have confidence that the LS500 is firmer riding and sportier than what the LS has been historically.
P.S I specifically asked him how it rode on the runflats because both him and I HATE runflats with a passion and he assured me it rode incredibly well.
This was on the Autobahn Country Club racecourse here in the southern suburbs of Chicago. I am not sure how smooth or rough that track is.
He said the car had a decent amount of body roll and was definitely a pig on the track (I mean it's a huge tank of a car so no surprise there). But acceleration was more than adequate and overall performance is adequate for a vehicle in this class. He had several videos of him driving it as well as some videos of the race instructor really pushing it to the limit, and even I was surprised at how quickly it accelerated.
Last edited by 97-SC300; 01-07-18 at 07:36 PM.
01-07-18, 08:16 PM
#855
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Well, I have not personally driven the new LS but my brother was invited to drive one at the local race track a few months back and he clearly said that even with the runflats, the new gen. LS500 rode considerably better than the outgoing model. He said it was a night and day difference. They also got to drive the new 7-Series, S-Class, A8, and Tesla S. He said the LS was his favorite and the Audi came in second. Mercedes fell way short, BMW was not worth mentioning, and the Tesla was a complete joke in driving dynamics.
This is after several hours on the racecourse with these cars.
This is after several hours on the racecourse with these cars.