LeX2K

Can't view your link security warning.

mmarshall

The American-spec C-HR that I mentioned, in the review, was built in a Turkish assembly-plant. That was one of the first things I checked, on the price-sticker, when I saw that big assembly-goof on the dash....I wanted to see where it came from. Of course, like I also mentioned in the review, that problem could (though not likely) have come from other sources, not just the plant itself.

Sulu

I'm guessing that these are mechanical parts. Toyota is a typical vertically-oriented Japanese company, with a lot of small, supplier companies in its family of companies; that is how it keeps its suppliers close and quality high.

Sulu

Call it cost-cutting if you want. All automakers building and selling in North America have to be careful to contain costs in order to keep prices from climbing too high. If costs are allowed to climb too high, retail prices have to climb to maintain profit margins (North Americans are price-sensitive about their cars, looking for inexpensive transportation), and soon they run into the problem VW had before they started building the Jetta and Passat in North America, which was that their mass market cars were priced out of the reach of the buyers they were aiming at.

mordecai

mmarshall, has been mentioning Toyota/Lexus/Japanese brand's "cheapening" and "cost cutting" of interior material for a while now. It honestly has become a broken record, he will bring it up and then in the same post talk about Kia/Hyundai's amazing interior materials. It's too predictable and I just look at as trying to push a narrative/FUD.

mmarshall

I call it like I see it, and simply opened up a thread for public discussion....one of many in Car Chat. In doing so, one acknowledges the possibility of contrasting opinions....we don't all necessarily think alike. If you disapprove of the thread, no one forces you to take part in it. And, for the record...your opinion noted.

Toys4RJill

I think it's very easy to get into any car brand and look around and find fault. Not sure why there is so much hate on for the Avalon by the OP. But to add a little contrast, the OPs very own Lacrosse could be critized for some lack of qualtyt. Namely the idea that faux leather is standard (Avalon has standard real leather), faux wood trim, a lack of a locking glove box, lack of a locking gas doors, lack of a power closing rear trunk, and the worst offender of all, the lack of a colored tri-shield emblem on the steering. So it is a two way street. Overall, I really like the Lacrosse and Buick but I can find fault in any car or brand if you really want. Now, as for Lexus, the ES Vs Avalon, Leuxs decided to go the cheap way of hiding the rear trunk hinges with Camry style plastic covers. Insulting faux leather is standard. I could add more but I think I made my point. Btw, my parents own a ES350, they absolutely hate it and now regret the purchase. But their own faux wood, lack of power rear hatch, 5 speed automatic, 4Runner is the most satisfying vehicle they have owned for a long long time.

It is very very easy to find fault in any car or brand. We were at a car meet on the weekend, the 2010 Rolls Royce that was on display was a big let down and it wasn't all that cracked up to be....but it was parked next to 5 other Rolls Royce models from 1950s to 90s that were just all the more impressive.


(My flame proof yoga pants and sports bra are now on)

Johnhav430

I think it's beneficial to be open-minded. My first brand new car was a 1998 Nissan Maxima SE 5-spd with every option except sunroof deflector. There isn't a single Nissan built ever since that I've liked. My 2nd brand new car was a 2007 BMW 335i coupe, 6 man with sport/prem/cold/comfort. I loved the car when I got it, and love it today. Drove it today. But there really hasn't been any BMW since that I'm in love with. Part of it is price, part of it is cheapification. Lexus? I've only been an owner 11 mos. I would say I love the LS. It has flaws too--how come the window switches are the same as a Corolla, in a flagship car? How come the front control arms are made of stamped steel and not forged aluminum? How come a car this size, only weighs maybe 400 lbs. more than a BMW 3 which is the size of a Civic? I won't get into my wife's car as that is not even close as far as quality but it was the most expensive of all the above. Anyway, nothing is perfect, but I am gravitating towards being a Lexus fanboy if I ever do become a fanboy of any make.....you'll see. Maybe I'll be in the LS500, never say never, but I do believe it's totally senseless to dream without goals. If it becomes a goal, it'll be in the driveway. my .02

mmarshall

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying.....and we have had at least part of this discussion before. I'm not an Avalon-hater. In fact, I had a very high opinion of previous-generation Avalons (and seriously considered the first-generation for a purchase myself)...just not necessarily this present one, for too many signs of cost-cutting. I agree with much of what you say about the lower-level trim versions of the Lacrosse...but, for me, those were not deal-beakers. In fact, I wanted Leatherette(faux-leather) instead of real leather, for several reasons. I couldn't care less about a power-closing rear trunk...IMO, that's just one more device to wear out or fail. I didn't want a bunch of advanced electronic options. IMO, the faux-wood-tone trim on the Lacrosse Preferred model looks better than the real wood on the Essence and Premium.....the real wood is too dark and polished for my tastes. I don't particularly care about not having a lock on the glove compartment....especially since I reach in and out of it so many times to consult the Owner's Manual for the car's rather complex functions (I also have the Owners' Manual and Infotainment Manual at home, on my computer, saved on my Favorites, so I can reference it at home). Yes, I WOULD like to have a locking gas-filler system and the colored tri-shield on the steering wheel, but locking filler-systems are not typically found on American-designed vehicles (or on my Opel-Designed Verano), and my neighborhood is comparably safe. In living there for almost 40 years, I've only had two things stolen off my cars.....a license plate about two years ago, and the chrome "T" Toyota emblem pried off the trunk of my blue Celica, back in the mid-1990s. (and I'm not even sure either theft actually occurred in the neighborhood itself...I just happened to first notice them in my parking space) Collecting auto emblems can be a teen-age fad in some places.

Older 4-Runners were built like tanks. Several people in my church have those older ones with 200-300K on them. The only problem I can see with something lasting that long is that one might simply get tired of driving it, year after year, and just want something else. Plus, on those old Toyota trucks and SUVs, the virtually bulletproof drivetrains often outlasted the bodies before rust would set in.

Did you get to sit inside the Rolls and sample its materials and design? Often, when they are on display, Rolls and Bentleys tend to be locked up.

LexusChris

iTrader: (1)

I have a 2014 Honda CR-V and pieces of this my door trim behind the door handles have fallen apart in two doors, battery failure in less than two years, my 2016 RAV4 is a basic LE trim approaching two years, have zero issues, no rattles or anything falling apart even most of the materials are nothing special so I think good job there Toyota plus the service department in Toyota even though run by same auto group seems far friendlier.

Toys4RJill

See, and that's just it. You could find fault or praise with any car that is out on the dealer lots for sale. I am glad you are being honest about your vehicle you own. And then you have to take into consideration the price point.

Below is some wonderful praise by a publication for the Avalon:

Let’s start inside, where the Avalon shows off a unique design. The dash is thickly layered with colours and materials and elements that intersect and integrate with one another.

It’s rich and upscale and very three dimensional, with some elements visually floating over others, helping to create a unique atmosphere from a mere glance. Inspect the cabin more closely, and the touch-activated buttons, colour-screen climate-control readout, uniquely textured central command console, and nicely finished gauges and dials all reward lengthier visual inspection, too.

Much of the Avalon’s interior could do double-duty in a not-that-old Lexus.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/wheelsn...g-haul-travels

mmarshall

In addition to the suspension-softening on all but the Touring version, Toyota did make some interior-quality improvements to the Avalon's mid-cycle update last year. Though I don't entirely agree with the review of the latest version you posted (I did reviews myself of both the pre and post-update versions), there is some truth to it. But the real problem, IMO, is that the 2014 Avalon, like the ill-fated 2012 Honda Civic, should never have been approved for production the way it was....that way, Toyota would not have had to do all those 2016 mid-cycle improvements. The 2012 Civic was even worse.....Honda had to do an emergency interior redesign within one year.

Toys4RJill

Not buying the idea that things were changed. The Avalon interior is the same since introduction.

2013 Toyota Avalon
Car and Driver certainly liked it:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

Highs:
Quiet and roomy, sleeker-looking, relatively smooth-riding, nice interior materials and ergonomics.

Lows:
Steering lacks feedback, inductive charging requires special phone, geriatric legacy, blip-throttle downshifts?

More comments from Car & Driver:
the understated décor is enhanced by excellent materials, and interior noise levels are Lexus low.
Hushed and Plush

mmarshall

No, it is not the same. I sampled both versions myself. But no sense arguing about it, on and on.....we will simply disagree, and I can live with that. We've done so before, and probably will again.

LexBob2

On the same note. U.S. News & World Report (which compiles information and data from a variety of sources) says the Avalon's interior is "premium and high tech". It received a higher score than the ES. It seems there are no glaring issues with the interior, but as often discussed it's an area that's highly subjective and there will never be agreement. Personally, if I were I the market for an Avalon the interior quality would not be an issue at all.