Toys4RJill

I agree. It's good to have money in the bank. Speaking of heat, I am very fortunate as my condo in Toronto does not ever require my central heat. It never drops below 71F in the unit. I do have a gas fireplace that I do use from time to time. Our home in Rochester needs heat from Nov-Apr

mmarshall

Latest tankful with my Lacrosse was the best yet......just under 25 MPG average. That isn't bad at all on a 3600 lb. full-size sedan, with a N/A/ V6 and no hybrid gear, in suburban driving. I've been very pleased with this car's mileage..significantly better than I expected, and actually a little better, under the same driving conditions, than the smaller, lighter Verano I had with a non-turbo four. Of course, that mileage is due, at least partly (in addition to my conservative driving style worthy of a big Buick), to the V6's cylinder-management system, engine-shut-down at idle (if the conditions are met) and the efficiency of the 9-speed GM/Ford-co-developed transmission (though the jury is still out on the transmission's long-term reliability). Everything in the drive train, though, is warranted for 6 years/70,000 miles (the same warranty as you get with a Cadillac, Lexus, Infiniti, Lincoln, or Acura)....so GM, at least, stands behind it. The direct-injection system for the fuel, though, at those very high injection-pressures (which also helps with the mileage) makes somewhat of a tick/thrum sound on acceleration, audible even with the Buick Quiet Tuning, that generally gets softer and more muted as the engine gets hot.

I'm going out to Maryland (Aspen Hill) Thursday to be with some of my friends and ex-co-workers for Thanksgiving dinner (one of them is also a car enthusiast like me, and owns a partially-restored Smoky and the Bandit black/gold Trans-Am). It's not totally in mint condition, but close...close enough for a couple of trophies at the local old-car shows. Anyhow, that will be a nice little drive, and I'll see if I can get 30 MPG or better on the highway like the Verano did.

tex2670

Some people may not like e-shifters and stop/start systems, but I can't imagine that Buick can peg lost sales on those features. They are not problems for German sedan sales.

LexBob2

Yeah the slow LaCrosse sales go deeper than these two items. I don't see GM, Buick or any other manufacturer going backwards on e shifters or start/stop systems to boost sales.

mmarshall

I disagree. The typical Buick buyer (especially in the LaCrosse's class) likes tradition, and is simply not comfortable with advanced electronic shifters and features. They were not necessarily deal-breakers for me....I was willing to tolerate them because I like the Lacrosse's ride, quietness, and seating comfort. But others aren't necessarily as forgiving as I am......as witnessed by the low number of LaCrosse sales. The top-selling Buick in the U.S., for example (the small Encore SUV) is essentially a re-badged Opel Mokka, far more conventional in layout and operation.

The start/stop system is simply a sop to the EPA to get fuel-mileage up. But, I have to admit, it works (see my post #62 above).

Toys4RJill

I agree. I think it goes deeper as well. Although I thought the new LaCrosse was just sensational. I do question whether it is worth getting over a Lexus ES. The ES is nicer inside with a more luxury design and nice materials especially the feel of the leather and it comes with real wood trim. With the Buick, you are paying big money for a car that is not all that large. It's more of a midsize than it is a full size. Cadillac needs to be in this price point and segment.

Finally, it is just me, but I feel as though Marshall does not really gush about this car. Seems to be a little bit of a letdown in his comments and writing.

All that said, I like it. It was nice and pleasant and seemed to ride nicer than my parents ES. It can had with adaptive suspension or whatever GM calls it. Has loads of nice features. Lots of power. Easy to use controls. But, the ES makes you feel better.

Just my thoughts.

mmarshall

No offense, Jill, but, at least as I see it, you've been back and forth on this one, In one post, you say that the LaCrosse trumps the ES, and is a better value for the money.....next, you say that the ES is nicer inside. I will admit it has a real wood steering wheel, something the Lacrosse lacks......why the Enclave Avenir gets a wood wheel and the Lacrosse Avenir doesn't beats me. ....that's something I'm going to ask the Buick reps at the D.C. Auto Show in January. And, yes, it's hard to beat the ES's assembly-quality. But I don't think the ES's ride, comfort-level, general level of hardware, sheet metal, or sound-insulation is any better than the Lacrosse's.

I've said before, and still maintain, that what is currently being sold as the LaCrosse (or something close to it), especially in the Avenir trim, is what Cadillac should probably have replaced the DTS with, not the XTS and CT6.....though I do understand the reasons Cadillac wants RWD sedans to compete with the Germans.

Well, with all due respect, Jill, what do you want me to do....worship it? The only thing I worship is God, in prayer and at Daily Mass. Yes, I waited over four decades, since I left college, to get another big Buick...partly because of GM's decades-long record of building junk, which didn't end till about 8-9 years ago, after the buyout. Now that I have one, I'm generally quite pleased with it, but not totally blind enough that I don't notice its relatively few shortcomings, or mention them in public. I've yet to see a perfect car (though, to my tastes, a few have come close)..and I suspect I never will. You have to understand the way I review a car, Jill.....you've certainly read enough of them. I'm the type of guy would find some good things in a Yugo, and things to complain about in a Rolls-Royce. Although I certainly don't consider myself in the same league as Alex Dykes (who is probably the best auto reviewer in the business)...talking about both sides of a car comes as natural to me as bees to honey. (I probably couldn't get through the average day without doing at least some of it LOL)

The ES probably makes you feel better because you and your family are long-time Toyota/Lexus fans...I can understand, and respect that. And it's a good car...several of my colleagues own or lease them. I know you did not care much for your CT, though, (you've mentioned that, several times, on Car Chat)...I was not terribly impressed wth it, either, as a Lexus......it probably should have been sold as a Toyota.

To tell you the truth, when I test-drove the MKZ, Cadenza, G80, Impala, and ES350 before I made my decision on the LaCrosse, they ALL felt good....except for the MKZ's somewhat loose build-quality. The decision on the LaCrosse was as much a factor of previous (excellent) experience with my local GM dealership/service advisor and, of course, my long wait for another big Buick, as it was for any other factor.

And just my thoughts.

tex2670

And yet those Buick buyers after tradition have somehow managed to adapt from a bench seat and column shifter; and as those changes were rolled out, Buicks were selling well. There's just no data to support sales loss because of features every other car company is moving to.

Toys4RJill

Completely agree. Well said. Buick Lacrosse is not doing well goes deeper as others have brought up earlier. I do not blame cross-over sales either. Something tells me the new Buick Regal which is now available will sell better than the Lacrosse.

mmarshall

That remains to be seen. Americans, in this size and price class, tend to prefer sedans....and the Regal will only offer a hatchback and wagon in the U.S. And, the wagon version, particularly with the AWD option, has to try and penetrate a market that the Subaru Outback has clearly dominated for years.

mmarshall

Many tolerate the bucket seats and console, but are not happy about it. And they definitely don't like the new E-shifter and undefeatable stop-start sytem. Simply ask yourself why this car isn't selling. I'm willing to overlook some things, but a number of other potential buyers aren't. But, bench or bucket, E-shift or conventional....it still provides the same Buick comfort.

Toys4RJill

Well, the LaCrosse is not doing well. It may not even sell 23K units for 2017. For a new design, the says there is something seriously not right. I have said that its too small, should be even larger on the inside (like the last gen Avalon). I think Buick missed the mark. I do really like the car BTW.

What is interesting to note is that the new Buick Regal is almost identical for inside dimensions. Starts at $8K less than a LaCrosse. Has pretty much the same design for the interior.

mmarshall

Agreed.......but I'm not always one to go along (or not go along) with the crowd.

You also claim that ihe Lacrosse is not a full-size car, but a mid-sized one. First, EPA ratings measure vehicle-sizes by interior volume, not exterior dimensions....I personally don't agree with that system, but that's what they use, and, because they are the government, we're stuck with it. Second, since the demise of the DTS / Lucerne and Town Car / Crown Vic, true full-sized cars are generally not produced any more under American nameplates, though some can still be found from Europe, Japan, and Korea. Third, by today's standards, especially in the U.S., the Lacrosse, Impala, MKZ, Continental, Cadenza, Avalon, Azera, XTS, CT6, and ES350 are considered pretty much on the borderline between mid-sized and full-sized...the ES350 maybe lightly less-so. Yet these cars, by exterior dimensions, are generally marketed in the U.S. as "full-size."


Well, you and I have discussed that a number of times. Yes, the non-defeatable stop/start system, E-shifter, and odd trim-level pricing/content turn some people off. But, nevertheless, I am still quite satisfied wth mine.

I haven't tried out the new Regal yet (I plan to). Like the past one, it will be essentially a rebadged Opel Insignia. The last Regal (and, presumably, the new one as well) will admittedly have some advantages that the LaCrosse lacks.....Opel solidness in its construction and hardware, and probably a better-than-average repair record (though I suspect the reliability for the second-year 2018 Lacrosse will be considerably better than the disappointing first-year 2017s, as it has a completely different transmission and electronics that have the teething problems out).

But the Lacrosse excels in comfort. With 18" tires, it provides the seating and riding comfort, at a reasonable price in the lower-trim levels, that too many cars today simply lack. That was a big factor that sold me. The Verano had nice Cush-Tush seats and effective Buick Quiet Tuning, but the difference in ride comfort between it and the Lacrosse (especially with cold tires and shocks) is noticeable. The Lacrosse's new 9-speed automatic also lacks the occasional hiccups that you got with the old 6-speed. I understand the Regal is also going to get that same transmission.....in fact, the new Regal GS, the sport-oriented model, is going to have the same drivetrain, with its 305 HP V6, as the Lacrosse and Enclave.