UDel

I don't see anything about a new Camry I would prefer over a used 4th Gen Lexus GS except I would take the Camry V6 over the new 4cylinder GS. 6 cylinder for 6 cylinder I would take the GS without hesitation.

signdetres

For starters, I'm a big fan of the new Camry. I appreciate the new design, inside and out. Regardless of personal taste or preference in design, it definitely boasts a more upscale and premium aesthetic in comparison to the previous generation and I commend Toyota for making all the safety & convenience features like forward collision warning, lane keep assist, intelligent high beams, etc. standard on all models. Not only is that a great bargain but truly raises the bar for all automakers at all price points and will help take the automotive industry one step closer to accident-free driving. Personally-speaking, I like the design of the new Camry and find it to have an attractive interior & exterior for its segment. This is different from how I feel about the new Accord (please note this is unbiased - not a Honda "fan" nor have I owned one). My initial reaction to the new Accord was, "Wow, what a gorgeous car. ...Wait, did I just call an Accord gorgeous?" This is how I feel about it regardless of segment and price point; I just think it happens to be a handsome and well-styled car.

All that said, the way a car feels to drive and the way a car makes you feel while you drive it are two very different things and are difficult to quantify because these categories completely obviate all the numbers and specs of a car more commonly compared. I've been fortunate enough to have experienced many new cars in recent years from a variety of makes and an even bigger variety of price points from $22k Ford Focuses to $100k+ Mercedes S-Class and AMG vehicles to more recently, my new 18' GS F-Sport. In my experience, I've found that it doesn't matter what kind of car you're buying or how much you're spending on it, buying a new car is plain fun. Nothing beats the feeling of driving a new car home off the dealer lot.

The part that matters: Once the newness wears off, as stated in the beginning of this paragraph, how does the car feel to drive & how do you feel while you drive it? This is the scenario where I don't feel as though comparing the GS & Camry is quite fair (even used GS vs new Camry assuming the GS is in good condition & not used and abused). This isn't to say the Camry isn't great, because it is, and while it certainly can perform respectably in the "way a car feels to drive" category, it's the latter "way a car makes you feel while you drive it" category that I found the new Camry lacking in. Where I find the GS excels is that it's able to perform respectably in both of the two categories which is what makes it so gratifying to drive (or any other car that performs well in both). This is where all of those little added touches and attention to detail come into play such as the slight delay/dampening when operating power seat controls or windows that slow prior to reach fully opened/closed, attention to detail/use of nicer carpeting and materials in the trunk/cargo area, sound and feel of switchgear, etc.

A good test of this (and for any of you who live in or commute around the Los Angeles area will be able to relate to) is to ask yourself which of the two cars you'd rather find yourself stuck in traffic in. Again, this completely throws out make, price point, horsepower, etc. As an example, we had a 503hp ML63 AMG that was a blast in a straight line and had an absolutely exhilarating exhaust/engine note yet at nearly double the price point of a GS, it was pretty lacking in the first category (straight line aside) and performed decently in the latter (relatively speaking of course) but I don't know that I'd say it outperforms a GS outright (as you'd think it should given the cost difference).

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Every single one of these features got turned off almost immediately on the GS F. They are an annoyance at best and downright dangerous at worst. It would be wise to read through the owner's manual where they clearly discuss the limitations of these systems and advise the owner when they must be disabled. Of all of them, precollision braking as a positive is limited to those drivers who are fundamentally inattentive and probably shouldn't even be on the road. It will routinely vex those of us who ARE paying attention and expect to have exclusive control of the car. I can't count the number of times it has nearly caused accidents for me because it is incapable of understanding the driver's intent. I permanently turned it off and acknowledge it is off every time I start the car.

signdetres

I'm sorry your experience with some of the safety tech features on your GS-F have been less than stellar. I've personally never had any of the systems in my GS trigger (exception being Blind Spot Monitoring/Cross Traffic Alert) so that may be indicative of your overall driving style and is more attributed to user error than a fundamental issue with the systems.

While I haven't experienced any Lexus/Toyota safety system in action, I have had many experiences with these types of systems across various automakers from basic warning only-type systems to full autonomous intervention-type systems and have been to quite a few demo events and tech seminars surrounding the topic, so I have had my fair share of experience with these life-saving systems and have been able to get a deeper understanding for them in controlled and safe environments. While your experience may not be the model/ideal scenario, there's a reason why automakers cannot score above a certain threshold in government safety testing: the statistics do not lie. These systems not only reduce the number of accidents each year, they more importantly save human lives. To think that you, as a human, are able to stay alert, attentive and act using correct judgement 100% of the time in 100% of all scenarios is plain ignorance. If you actually read the owners manual regarding these systems (wouldn't even have to be for Lexus/Toyota, all automakers echo the same sentiments currently) you would understand that current systems are not to be relied upon as a replacement for the driver and are intended for use as a back-up/fail safe should human error occur (which it does... ALL the time).

That said, I'm sure the poster of this thread would appreciate the topic remain focused on the '18 Camry and not go off-course so I apologize for my involvement in this off-topic discussion.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Obviously what we expect from a vehicle is quite different, and our skill levels are likely quite different. Driver's aids on both the GS and the Camry are not all they are cracked up to be. Again, I seriously recommend you READ THE THREE+ PAGES OF WARNINGS in the owner's manual around precollision braking, and be aware of the MANY situations where it may prevent the driver from maintaining control of the vehicle and cause an unsafe condition. I have experienced a few of these as have other GS owners if you look in the GS forums. Pages are attached for reference.

Yes, statistics do lie. If you believe the NHTSA, airbags have proven to save lives. If you believe the Tremika Finney's graduate dissertation at Georgia Tech, you are more likely to be injured or killed in a car equipped with airbags. Both groups agree each other's methods are sound. One chooses to cherry pick the data (NHTSA) and the other does not. NHTSA cannot afford to say they are wrong about airbags - they have a vested interest; I don't trust them.

There used to be a discount for ABS on cars. Insurance companies no longer offer this discount. Why? Because their statistics tell them there is no difference between cars with ABS and cars without ABS when they are involved in accidents - yes, this discount disappeared long before ABS was ubiquitous. If any driving aid provides significant reduction in accident involvement, it will be reflected in your insurance rates. I have not had any insurance company ask me about ANY modern driving aid in any of my vehicles, and oddly enough my 1993 Supra remains cheapest to insure in all coverages.

Again, our experiences, research, and desire to get to the root of the knowledge is different.

Government safety testing CAUSES unsafe vehicles. I spent a long evening with a product liability attorney discussing why Mazda chose to use a seat belt that allowed 21 inches of forward travel in crash testing - as it turns out, IF the airbag deploys, this gets you a better crash test rating. Unfortunately, if the airbag does not deploy, it puts the driver's face into the steering wheel causing massive head trauma. Mazda knew this, and they are being sued for it. ALL the manufacturers seeking better government crash test results are doing what Mazda did, even though it is contrary to improving driver safety in the real world.

Camry, new vs. used GS? I have driven both, and the Camry is a fine automobile if you like FWD and all that means. I do not. I have owned a number of FWD cars, and would not choose to own one again. Used GS, every time all the time.

mmarshall

Lobuxracer is at least a little closer to the truth. What you are failing to consider here, signdetres, IMO, is that those very humans that you admit are less than 100% perfect are the ones who actually program the computer systems. No system, no matter how advanced, is better than the quality of the design and programming that goes into it. As the Good Book says, no slave is greater than its master.

Well, I have one nice thing to say about it. I'm glad the Camry still offers an honest-to-goodness V6. Many vehicles in this size/price class don't any more.

MattyG

This is a seriously esoteric discussion among car enthusiasts IMO. Very few Camry buyers cross-shop a used GS simply on the basis of one car's a RWD platform vs the other being a FWD platform. ie. One is better because it provides more driving pleasure vs the other being a commuter car which provides no such thing. The vast majority of the car buying public and Camry buyers are going to be cross-shopping the brand new Accord and maybe the Hyundai/Kia twins - and maybe the Fusion.

The two are apples and oranges and the sales numbers reflect that. The GS sells in tiny numbers compared to the Camry because the Camry's buyers have different priorities. And one thing is certain, they buy because they want a mid-priced inexpensive vehicle that doesn't come with high insurance premiums, costly service or maintenance at a dealer and of course, they want the latest tech.

mmarshall

Actually, it became more of a discussion between new and used cars in general LOL. But, I agree with lobuxracer...back to topic.

MattyG

Indeed, but that's the nature of forums. You can be sure that most threads drift off course within about 5-6 pages. But the OP does own a 4th generation GS and asked about the Camry (he originally posted in the 4G thread and it was moved here).

That's something that's nice to see with Toyota retaining the V6 instead of going to turbocharging and 4 cylinder power to make torque. It means silky smooth power which Toyotas are known for.

Toys4RJill

I really don't understand the idea to compare a used GS to a new Camry. Perhaps GS owners are feeling a bit inferior. Car & Driver claim 5.7 seconds for the V6 Camry vs the Lexus corporate claim of 5.7 seconds for the GS 350 using 91 octane fuel and professional drivers and equipment. 26MPG on regular for the Camry vs 23MPG on premium for the GS. There are more updated and modern features in the Camry. The size of each are almost identical, Camry has a bit more room. Its lower. No stupid remote touch in the Camry. Appears to me the Camry is a much better car.

But again, I don't understand why there is the need to compare the two.

peteharvey

It is unusual to compare a Camry to GS, because the latter costs 1.5 times the former, nevertheless comparisons can still be done, esp with new Camry versus used GS.
Each car has its own set of strengths and weaknesses.

New Camry's 40 mm lower seating position has its ups and downs; won't suit everyone.
As Jill has said above, new Camry has new technology.
Remember that Camry is about 10% lighter, hence 10% superior economy etc.
GS still has build quality in the quality of the plastics, leather and stitching, and thick seat backrests.
GS has RWD power oversteer handling.

Just depends which sets of pros/cons best suits individual tastes etc...

joedaddy1

iTrader: (1)

Kinda sad that we are comparing a GS to a Camry.

why not compare it to an ES?

I doubt a GS buyer cross shops a Camry lol.

mmarshall

In this case, probably a lot more than that, because you talking about at least a GS F-Sport. (if not a full-F model).

Toys4RJill

Exactly. Both have their pros and cons. No doubt the GS350 is a great car, but a V6 Camry that was recently updated is the superior purchase. Especially if it is a used GS vs new Camry.

MattyG

The GS is on the last generation platform so while it's still quite impressive as a driver's car, it does lag compared to its German competition. But of course we know that the next generation Crown/GS is going to be quite interesting performance wise, especially the GS-F.

The Camry OTH is getting the full benefit of Toyota's TNGA platform and so it should be a very good seller for Toyota. This is exactly what the Camry needed. I like everything except the front end. This car looks better than the Accord IMO and its interior design is also better. Really like that dash design with the "swoop between the driver and passenger. Heck, even the passionate car-driving teenagers at CD like the Camry.