Thoughts on the 2018 Camry XSE V6
#76
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Toyota and its dealers do quite well selling the V6 Camry even if that's not the bulk of sales of the model. The V6 Camry has a higher sticker because it's often packaged with a lot more options and allows for a better margin. Toyota's marketers believe that Americans prefer V6 power from the Camry when they opt for the higher trims. The smooth linear power delivery and fuss free driving keeps the V6 around.
They do have the 2.0 liter turbo from the NX200t, GS200t sedans if they want to do it. It provides plenty of torque for the Camry at its curb weight, but not sure they think they have to.
They do have the 2.0 liter turbo from the NX200t, GS200t sedans if they want to do it. It provides plenty of torque for the Camry at its curb weight, but not sure they think they have to.
2.0L turbo fours are rapidly becoming the basic all-around workhorse power plant. We're seeing them even in luxury sedans now......Audi A6, Lincoln MKZ, and (Gulp!)
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#77
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Yes that is the trend certainly and in basic trim that's not too bad choice given modern engine electronics and NVH measures to keeps things smooth and quiet. But BMW still keeps its ageless inline 6 around while Audi is a V6 upgrade to a higher trim level. MB is bringing back its inline 6, so there is an argument to be made for engine options beyond basic.
#78
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When Toyota did the turbocharged 4-cylinder, it could have put a turbo on the 2AR 2.5-litre but instead, they went with a new 8AR 2-litre -- same basic AR engine block but presumably smaller bore size for stronger, more durable engine block.
#79
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Years ago, almost all turbos came wth a boost-gauge, so you could see how hard (or how little) you were stressing the engine/turbo and components. Today, those boost-gauges are either not there any more, or, if so, buried down deep within the programmable-electronics somewhere. Also, today, the boost is much more tightly-regulated by the engine-computer.
And, don't forget the old 1-4 skip-shift feature on V8 Mustangs and Camaros that forced the lever away from 2nd or 3rd gear unless you really hammered the throttle. That drove a lot of owners nuts (some aftermarket features were available to disconnect it)...I didn't like the feature myself when I sampled those cars.
^^ Yes, and since that is the case and since true sport sedan features are not offered Toyota shouldn't be marketing it as such. The current model, I have to say, made me pause just a bit with the V6 XSE and take a quick glance. Once I saw that nothing significant was changed mechanically to live up to the aggressive new looks... I moved on.
Family cars that have true sport sedan trim levels have been offered by many manufacturers for decades. Toyota once did with their Cresta, Mark II and Chaser as well as, in very limited form, the USA-spec Cressida. The Camry has not traditionally been a "sport sedan" at all but suddenly Toyota would like us to think it is. They would also have us believe that it is relatively easy to find an V6 XSE model at your average dealer.
An AWD Camry would be a nice offering even as an "all weather" type of offering. The current RAV4 is enormous compared to what a "RAV4" used to be. A victim of new model redesign bloat. The CHR is more of a RAV4 sized and styled vehicle now. If only it had the AWD and non-CVT transmission options that the Japanese and European versions have available. The Venza V6 AWD "wagon-over" was pretty good as a a kind of more rugged AWD Camry wagon but it didn't last very long, did it? And it was extremely difficult to find any of the I-4 AWD versions and even harder to find any V-6 AWD versions. Dealers just didn't seem to stock the best models very often.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 11-27-17 at 12:51 AM.
#80
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Sadly you are right... but it is very annoying. The existence of an AWD RAV-4 or underwhelming (at least when I last drove one) AWD+CVT Lexus RX that both sit high off the ground and definitely are not sedans aren't going to make me buy them let alone be interested in them when I prefer an AWD sedan or wagon. I'll never understand the popularity of crossovers and CUVs. It wasn't long ago that I said I can't comprehend the enormous popularity of non-offroad-or-hauling-use large SUV's... and I still don't. Speciality offerings in sedans and wagons (let alone coupes) are even harder to find today because of those often ugly things things.
An AWD Camry would be a nice offering even as an "all weather" type of offering. The current RAV4 is enormous compared to what a "RAV4" used to be. A victim of new model redesign bloat. The CHR is more of a RAV4 sized and styled vehicle now. If only it had the AWD and non-CVT transmission options that the Japanese and European versions have available. The Venza V6 AWD "wagon-over" was pretty good as a a kind of more rugged AWD Camry wagon but it didn't last very long, did it? And it was extremely difficult to find any of the I-4 AWD versions and even harder to find any V-6 AWD versions. Dealers just didn't seem to stock the best models very often.
Much of the popularity of SUVs that you speak of comes from added ground-clearance (for deep snow) and the taller-sit driving position that a lot of people like. Sedans, in general, just don't offer that, though there was at least one interesting exception...the Subaru SUS (Special-Utility-Sedan), based on the Legacy....a marketing attempt at providing SUV-like ground clearance for those who prefer a sedan-like separate trunk. It was not successful, and dropped after a couple of years.
#81
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I think that if it is dropped, it won't happen for 3 years, at the mid-model change. Toyota seldom makes major changes outside of planned model changes. At that time, there may be a new turbocharged 4-cylinder engine available, based on the new Dynamic Force engine.
When Toyota did the turbocharged 4-cylinder, it could have put a turbo on the 2AR 2.5-litre but instead, they went with a new 8AR 2-litre -- same basic AR engine block but presumably smaller bore size for stronger, more durable engine block.
When Toyota did the turbocharged 4-cylinder, it could have put a turbo on the 2AR 2.5-litre but instead, they went with a new 8AR 2-litre -- same basic AR engine block but presumably smaller bore size for stronger, more durable engine block.
#82
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who wants to buy a $36k Camry?
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#83
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most consumers no longer have any idea or care what's under the hood. it's either smooth or fast or quiet, etc., but that's it. even the mercedes e300 doesn't have a v6 and a friend of mine who owns one swore up and down that it did, but he didn't care either way.
#84
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Perhaps, then, I'm not "most" customers, but I darn well cared what was under the hood of the Lacrosse I ordered (Buick made the 4-banger hybrid the base power plant for 2018). After decades of driving four-bangers (my IS300 excepted, with its inline-6), I simply got tired of unrefinement under the hood, and wanted a nice V6. Even the latest V6s are not always perfectly refined...with DI, you can sometimes hear the pulse-injections as a tick-tick or humming sound.
#85
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Much of the popularity of SUVs that you speak of comes from added ground-clearance (for deep snow) and the taller-sit driving position that a lot of people like. Sedans, in general, just don't offer that, though there was at least one interesting exception...the Subaru SUS (Special-Utility-Sedan), based on the Legacy....a marketing attempt at providing SUV-like ground clearance for those who prefer a sedan-like separate trunk. It was not successful, and dropped after a couple of years.
![](https://car-pictures.cars.com/images/?IMG=U9SUGEA2.JPG&HEIGHT=600)
Although I suppose both of those offerings farther back than the Subaru pictured above weren't lifted much. AMC's Eagle line comes to mind. Antique designs by today's standards but a very good formula in general.
Then there were specialty exceptions such as the 1988-1993 Celica All-Trac and 1990-1992 Isuzu Impulse RS, both of which were technically rally cars but which could take on plenty of snow... if not extremely deep snow. Also, for the Japanese market only the Nissan Bluebird SSS sedan: AWD, a transverse SR20DET and manual and automatic options. The Bluebird was the same car as a middle 90's US-spec Altima.
I realize I'm beating a dead horse so I'll just leave it at the Camry being deserving of an AWD option (among other nonexistent options).
If a particular product isn't made and put on sale then no one can buy it and it's easy to say there is no justification for making that particular product because... no one is buying them. But a slew of SUVs and CUVs, some of which are FWD only (C-HR) do not an AWD Camry substitute make.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 11-28-17 at 02:28 AM.
#86
#87
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Perhaps, then, I'm not "most" customers, but I darn well cared what was under the hood of the Lacrosse I ordered (Buick made the 4-banger hybrid the base power plant for 2018). After decades of driving four-bangers (my IS300 excepted, with its inline-6), I simply got tired of unrefinement under the hood, and wanted a nice V6. Even the latest V6s are not always perfectly refined...with DI, you can sometimes hear the pulse-injections as a tick-tick or humming sound.
#88
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my comment was in response to you stating that offering the v6 gives the camry "at least that much of a one-up on the Accord" which i don't think it does in the market and you're of course not a customer or in the market, so respectfully it's not about what you or i think (or your buick).
Then I will respectfully disagree. Won't be the first time we disagreed, and probably won't be the last.
#89
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my comment was in response to you stating that offering the v6 gives the camry "at least that much of a one-up on the Accord" which i don't think it does in the market and you're of course not a customer or in the market, so respectfully it's not about what you or i think (or your buick).
Last edited by IS350jet; 11-29-17 at 11:18 AM.
#90
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i think they offer it because it's profitable (engine been around forever).