mmarshall

2.0L turbo fours are rapidly becoming the basic all-around workhorse power plant. We're seeing them even in luxury sedans now......Audi A6, Lincoln MKZ, and (Gulp!) ........even the base engine in Cadillac's CT6 flagship.

MattyG

Yes that is the trend certainly and in basic trim that's not too bad choice given modern engine electronics and NVH measures to keeps things smooth and quiet. But BMW still keeps its ageless inline 6 around while Audi is a V6 upgrade to a higher trim level. MB is bringing back its inline 6, so there is an argument to be made for engine options beyond basic.

Sulu

I think that if it is dropped, it won't happen for 3 years, at the mid-model change. Toyota seldom makes major changes outside of planned model changes. At that time, there may be a new turbocharged 4-cylinder engine available, based on the new Dynamic Force engine.

When Toyota did the turbocharged 4-cylinder, it could have put a turbo on the 2AR 2.5-litre but instead, they went with a new 8AR 2-litre -- same basic AR engine block but presumably smaller bore size for stronger, more durable engine block.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

I've noticed this, yes. Some cars or model trims with a fun appeal should still have one. It's a delightful novelty to look at a boost gauge on a non-modified car and see it working. Electronic wastegates have been necessary and have improved the driving experience on very new cars although I'm not sure how that affects the ability to tune. So far it hasn't stopped Cobb and other companies with ECU reflash programming


Corvettes have that skip-shift feature too unless you use mid or 3/4 throttle in the lower gears. I wouldn't like it either and thank goodness for those skip-shift defeat kits. The arbitrary system doesn't allow the driver to determine for themselves when it is best to select higher and lower gears. Manufacturers have to equip some manual cars this way now from the factory if they want to sell an extremely powerful stick-shift model.


Sadly yes but if you want a sporty manual transmission Toyota your only option, currently, is the superb 86. Brilliant coupe but not cutting it for someone who needs four doors with their fun. It should be offered and available but c'est la vie.

^^ Yes, and since that is the case and since true sport sedan features are not offered Toyota shouldn't be marketing it as such. The current model, I have to say, made me pause just a bit with the V6 XSE and take a quick glance. Once I saw that nothing significant was changed mechanically to live up to the aggressive new looks... I moved on.

Family cars that have true sport sedan trim levels have been offered by many manufacturers for decades. Toyota once did with their Cresta, Mark II and Chaser as well as, in very limited form, the USA-spec Cressida. The Camry has not traditionally been a "sport sedan" at all but suddenly Toyota would like us to think it is. They would also have us believe that it is relatively easy to find an V6 XSE model at your average dealer.

Sadly you are right... but it is very annoying. The existence of an AWD RAV-4 or underwhelming (at least when I last drove one) AWD+CVT Lexus RX that both sit high off the ground and definitely are not sedans aren't going to make me buy them let alone be interested in them when I prefer an AWD sedan or wagon. I'll never understand the popularity of crossovers and CUVs. It wasn't long ago that I said I can't comprehend the enormous popularity of non-offroad-or-hauling-use large SUV's... and I still don't. Speciality offerings in sedans and wagons (let alone coupes) are even harder to find today because of those often ugly things things.

An AWD Camry would be a nice offering even as an "all weather" type of offering. The current RAV4 is enormous compared to what a "RAV4" used to be. A victim of new model redesign bloat. The CHR is more of a RAV4 sized and styled vehicle now. If only it had the AWD and non-CVT transmission options that the Japanese and European versions have available. The Venza V6 AWD "wagon-over" was pretty good as a a kind of more rugged AWD Camry wagon but it didn't last very long, did it? And it was extremely difficult to find any of the I-4 AWD versions and even harder to find any V-6 AWD versions. Dealers just didn't seem to stock the best models very often.

mmarshall

Much of the popularity of SUVs that you speak of comes from added ground-clearance (for deep snow) and the taller-sit driving position that a lot of people like. Sedans, in general, just don't offer that, though there was at least one interesting exception...the Subaru SUS (Special-Utility-Sedan), based on the Legacy....a marketing attempt at providing SUV-like ground clearance for those who prefer a sedan-like separate trunk. It was not successful, and dropped after a couple of years.

IS350jet

I agree, the V6 will be dropped eventually. I think for now, the only reason Toyota kept the V6 for the new Camry is to hold a little dark cloud over Honda's head. Didn't work though, as most reviews I've read call the Accord superior to the Camry in almost all aspects. When they do drop the V6 they will more than likely blame the take rate instead of EPA. Of course it's take rate, who wants to buy a $36k Camry?

mmarshall

Simply offering the V6, IMO, gives it at least that much of a one-up on the Accord. Recent Accords, though, IMO, have outdone Camrys in other areas, such as the quality of the materials/hardware used in the interior and trim.


Those who can't (or won't) spend another 5-10K to get into a Lexus ES LOL.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

most consumers no longer have any idea or care what's under the hood. it's either smooth or fast or quiet, etc., but that's it. even the mercedes e300 doesn't have a v6 and a friend of mine who owns one swore up and down that it did, but he didn't care either way.

mmarshall

Perhaps, then, I'm not "most" customers, but I darn well cared what was under the hood of the Lacrosse I ordered (Buick made the 4-banger hybrid the base power plant for 2018). After decades of driving four-bangers (my IS300 excepted, with its inline-6), I simply got tired of unrefinement under the hood, and wanted a nice V6. Even the latest V6s are not always perfectly refined...with DI, you can sometimes hear the pulse-injections as a tick-tick or humming sound.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

^^ I remember that model Legacy/Outback sedan. I loved it. That model just needed their corporate 227hp 2.0L turbo engine from the WRX. Audi used to offer very similar products in the 1980's through the middle 1990's with their five-cylinder Quattro 4WD cars and Subaru had a Loyale 4WD turbo model or two in the same era that was similar.

Although I suppose both of those offerings farther back than the Subaru pictured above weren't lifted much. AMC's Eagle line comes to mind. Antique designs by today's standards but a very good formula in general.

Then there were specialty exceptions such as the 1988-1993 Celica All-Trac and 1990-1992 Isuzu Impulse RS, both of which were technically rally cars but which could take on plenty of snow... if not extremely deep snow. Also, for the Japanese market only the Nissan Bluebird SSS sedan: AWD, a transverse SR20DET and manual and automatic options. The Bluebird was the same car as a middle 90's US-spec Altima.

I realize I'm beating a dead horse so I'll just leave it at the Camry being deserving of an AWD option (among other nonexistent options).

If a particular product isn't made and put on sale then no one can buy it and it's easy to say there is no justification for making that particular product because... no one is buying them. But a slew of SUVs and CUVs, some of which are FWD only (C-HR) do not an AWD Camry substitute make.

GS350MIKE

I like the Camry from the front. The GS is a bit overkill with the “spindle on steroids” look. But I still prefer my ‘14 GS F Sport appearance to either of them.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

my comment was in response to you stating that offering the v6 gives the camry "at least that much of a one-up on the Accord" which i don't think it does in the market and you're of course not a customer or in the market, so respectfully it's not about what you or i think (or your buick).

mmarshall

Then I will respectfully disagree. Won't be the first time we disagreed, and probably won't be the last.

IS350jet

Well......I was in the market. I've been a Honda loyalist for many years. Had my 2017 Accord not been available with a V6 I wouldn't have bought one. I do believe the only reason Toyota offers the V6 in the Camry is to try and "one-up" the Accord.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i think they offer it because it's profitable (engine been around forever).