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12-07-17, 08:23 PM
#76
Lexus Fanatic
What did I consider an improvement? That, of course, depends on what one consider an "improvement". In general, I liked the older Lexus models more than the newer ones, but several improvements did come about. One was more efficient, multi-gear transmissions for better gas mileage. Another was expansion of AWD-availability in the sedans for better winter traction. Another was the beautiful Matador Red paint. And, of course, the defect-rate in new Lexus vehicles dropping to what is arguably the lowest in the industry.
I'll agree with Steve, BTW, on the interior rattles. I forgot to list that earlier.
I'll agree with Steve, BTW, on the interior rattles. I forgot to list that earlier.
In general, lighter/thinner materials in the design, elimination of the nice 3.0L in-line 6 for V6s, slightly firmer suspensions/underpinnings, somewhat less "thunk" in the door-closings, some paint colors, particularly black, getting at least some noticeable orange-peel (though other colors, in the Lexus tradition, remained mirror-smooth), Less-impressive wood trim inside, more plastic in the interiors, deletion of some formerly standard features like the first-aid kit in the trunk (on some models, it is now an option), deletion of standard body-side moldings, replacing real spare tires with temporary spares or donuts, an increasing reliance on dash-electronics, less sound-insulation on some models (not all), substitution of fake leather for the real stuff (though, to be honest, the NuLuxe substitute is excellent), lower-profile tires that didn't absorb bumps as well, and a general change in the way Lexus products were advertised and marketed....you didn't have the smooth-sounding "Mr. Lexus" James Sloyan ads any more. While some of this, of course, is subjective rather than fact, personally, I tend to prefer the way Lexus products were done before that period, rather than after it.
While the CT, in fact, did sell pretty well under the Lexus nameplate (one cannot deny that), I still stand by my earlier statements that I don't think it should have been marketed as a Lexus, but rather as a Toyota. Except for the nice NuLuxe upholstery, which was superb, I just did not think it had the refinement, road manners, and feel that a Lexus product needs...I feel, to some extent, the same way about the NX.
While the CT, in fact, did sell pretty well under the Lexus nameplate (one cannot deny that), I still stand by my earlier statements that I don't think it should have been marketed as a Lexus, but rather as a Toyota. Except for the nice NuLuxe upholstery, which was superb, I just did not think it had the refinement, road manners, and feel that a Lexus product needs...I feel, to some extent, the same way about the NX.
12-08-17, 09:30 AM
#77
Lexus Fanatic
Example, my LS400 had real leather armrest, real leather gathered door inserts, very soft nappa level quality leather standard with no leather upgrade. Wood was thick and rich, when you looked at the edges of say the ashtray door they looked like hand cut and finished wood furniture. My 2003 ES had real leather center armrests, and very good quality leather almost the same as the LS. Wood was the same way. My LS430 was a UL, so it had a full stitched real leather lower dash, door panels, console, etc.
Compare my LS460, base leather nowhere near the quality of what was in the LS or even that 2003 ES. Semi-Aniline leather is still nice. Stitched imitation leather door panels, lower dash and imitation leather armrest. These areas are still imitation even in a UL LS460. I love the car but if I'm being honest, it just does not feel overall as high quality or well built inside as the LS400 or LS430 did.
Last edited by SW17LS; 12-08-17 at 09:35 AM.
12-08-17, 07:41 PM
#78
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
The only problem I can remember with those cars had nothing to do with leather...it was the sometimes quirky throttle-by-wire response and erratic shifting.
12-08-17, 10:47 PM
#79
Lexus Fanatic
Yeah the electronic throttle had a lot of lag. That was an issue to a lesser extent with my LS400 too.
12-10-17, 09:48 AM
#80
Lexus Fanatic
Areas where I disagree are materials, wood material and leather being better. IMHO these items were all better in my older Lexus cars than they are in similar new Lexus cars.
Example, my LS400 had real leather armrest, real leather gathered door inserts, very soft nappa level quality leather standard with no leather upgrade. Wood was thick and rich, when you looked at the edges of say the ashtray door they looked like hand cut and finished wood furniture. My 2003 ES had real leather center armrests, and very good quality leather almost the same as the LS. Wood was the same way. My LS430 was a UL, so it had a full stitched real leather lower dash, door panels, console, etc.
Compare my LS460, base leather nowhere near the quality of what was in the LS or even that 2003 ES. Semi-Aniline leather is still nice. Stitched imitation leather door panels, lower dash and imitation leather armrest. These areas are still imitation even in a UL LS460. I love the car but if I'm being honest, it just does not feel overall as high quality or well built inside as the LS400 or LS430 did.
Example, my LS400 had real leather armrest, real leather gathered door inserts, very soft nappa level quality leather standard with no leather upgrade. Wood was thick and rich, when you looked at the edges of say the ashtray door they looked like hand cut and finished wood furniture. My 2003 ES had real leather center armrests, and very good quality leather almost the same as the LS. Wood was the same way. My LS430 was a UL, so it had a full stitched real leather lower dash, door panels, console, etc.
Compare my LS460, base leather nowhere near the quality of what was in the LS or even that 2003 ES. Semi-Aniline leather is still nice. Stitched imitation leather door panels, lower dash and imitation leather armrest. These areas are still imitation even in a UL LS460. I love the car but if I'm being honest, it just does not feel overall as high quality or well built inside as the LS400 or LS430 did.
Items like the roof, sun visors became fabric. Lumbar and vertical supports were added to the passenger seat in1993.
People can live in the past if they want, complain about trivial things, but the new models of Lexus are significantly superior vehicles than the early models.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 12-10-17 at 10:05 AM.
12-10-17, 10:04 AM
#81
Aside from the plague of standard Nuluxe on a couple cars, Lexus interiors are better today than ever before. Material and build quality in the new LC and upcoming LS are out of this world and finally on-par with the best from Germany. The current LS is still a Toyota parts bin special in places.
The only exception I feel is the IS/RC. From the day photos were released I hated their boy racer designs. It doesn't look like a blend of luxury and sport like say an A4 or 3-series, it just looks ugly. My 2nd gen IS has a nicer looking interior with a more extensive use of wood, even though its build quality falls short of the current car.
The only exception I feel is the IS/RC. From the day photos were released I hated their boy racer designs. It doesn't look like a blend of luxury and sport like say an A4 or 3-series, it just looks ugly. My 2nd gen IS has a nicer looking interior with a more extensive use of wood, even though its build quality falls short of the current car.
12-10-17, 10:25 AM
#82
Lexus Fanatic
Aside from the plague of standard Nuluxe on a couple cars, Lexus interiors are better today than ever before. Material and build quality in the new LC and upcoming LS are out of this world and finally on-par with the best from Germany. The current LS is still a Toyota parts bin special in places.
12-10-17, 01:29 PM
#83
Lexus Fanatic
I have no idea what year your LS400 was, but upon inception leather door inserts were not a standard item until 1993. Leather seats, shifter, door inserts, and console box were an option. So was a power telescoping steering wheel. Heated front seats.
Items like the roof, sun visors became fabric. Lumbar and vertical supports were added to the passenger seat in1993.
People can live in the past if they want, complain about trivial things, but the new models of Lexus are significantly superior vehicles than the early models.
Items like the roof, sun visors became fabric. Lumbar and vertical supports were added to the passenger seat in1993.
People can live in the past if they want, complain about trivial things, but the new models of Lexus are significantly superior vehicles than the early models.
Its not about living in the past. No doubt overall Lexus products are better today, however as someone who has owned many over many generations of Lexus cars they are not built as well or as solidly as they were in the 90s. They’re just not.
As much as I’ve enjoyed my Lexus cars, I feel very strongly this is likely my last Lexus. Competitors are just making more compelling products that tick the boxes better for me, and Lexus doesn’t excel at the build and quality compared to the competition anymore.
12-10-17, 02:06 PM
#84
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
don't see a sig. 
12-10-17, 02:18 PM
#85
Lexus Fanatic
How weird is that?! No clue why my sig didn’t post lol
Last edited by SW17LS; 12-10-17 at 02:44 PM.
12-10-17, 03:05 PM
#87
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
12-10-17, 03:16 PM
#88
Lexus Fanatic
I would think so lol
12-10-17, 03:42 PM
#90
Lexus Fanatic
Areas where I disagree are materials, wood material and leather being better. IMHO these items were all better in my older Lexus cars than they are in similar new Lexus cars.
Example, my LS400 had real leather armrest, real leather gathered door inserts, very soft nappa level quality leather standard with no leather upgrade. Wood was thick and rich, when you looked at the edges of say the ashtray door they looked like hand cut and finished wood furniture. My 2003 ES had real leather center armrests, and very good quality leather almost the same as the LS. Wood was the same way. My LS430 was a UL, so it had a full stitched real leather lower dash, door panels, console, etc.
Compare my LS460, base leather nowhere near the quality of what was in the LS or even that 2003 ES. Semi-Aniline leather is still nice. Stitched imitation leather door panels, lower dash and imitation leather armrest. These areas are still imitation even in a UL LS460. I love the car but if I'm being honest, it just does not feel overall as high quality or well built inside as the LS400 or LS430 did.
Example, my LS400 had real leather armrest, real leather gathered door inserts, very soft nappa level quality leather standard with no leather upgrade. Wood was thick and rich, when you looked at the edges of say the ashtray door they looked like hand cut and finished wood furniture. My 2003 ES had real leather center armrests, and very good quality leather almost the same as the LS. Wood was the same way. My LS430 was a UL, so it had a full stitched real leather lower dash, door panels, console, etc.
Compare my LS460, base leather nowhere near the quality of what was in the LS or even that 2003 ES. Semi-Aniline leather is still nice. Stitched imitation leather door panels, lower dash and imitation leather armrest. These areas are still imitation even in a UL LS460. I love the car but if I'm being honest, it just does not feel overall as high quality or well built inside as the LS400 or LS430 did.