2018 Buick Enclave Avenir test drive...
12-23-17, 01:56 PM
#106
Lexus Champion
I don't think anyone is pining for the Saturn Plastic doors. It's almost never mentioned here on CL aside from your own comments about it. It is a novel idea but I would prefer sheet metal as it is today. I think the metal on my 14 Corolla, and I also like the metal on my 04 4Runner.
Probably not enough to rejuvenate the Saturn Division.
12-23-17, 02:23 PM
#107
Lexus Fanatic
No way the Saturn division could ever make a comeback, the brand name is worth nothing. Same with Olds, Pontiac and Hummer . I will admit, out of all divisions that closed up, SAAB could really make it in today's automotive landscape. They were the ones who were offering small turbos all thought out the years and today the market has gone to that. Plus, they were sort of premium and not quite luxury which is now being offered by all of the mainstream brands.
12-23-17, 03:28 PM
#108
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
No way the Saturn division could ever make a comeback, the brand name is worth nothing.
with the planet-and-rings logo. Like it or not, GM is doing quite well with its present line-up....though, yes, I'm glad that Buick was spared instead of Olds and Pontiac. One thing, though, that still puzzles me (though we're getting off-topic) is why GM's management still insists on two overlapping truck/SUV divisions that sell essentially the same products, with the only differences being in standard equipment and trim.
I've heard a couple of opinions and explanations why, but to me it still doesn't make sense.
12-23-17, 03:35 PM
#109
Lexus Fanatic
I'm not quite alone (don't forget that Saturn itself was pretty much of a cult in the automotive business). But I agree with both of you that it is very unlikely that we'll ever see any dealerships (Whoops.....Saturn called them "Retailers") with the planet-and-rings logo. Like it or not, GM is doing quite well with its present line-up....though, yes, I'm glad that Buick was spared instead of Olds and Pontiac.
One thing, though, that still puzzles me (though we're getting off-topic) is why GM's management still insists on two overlapping truck/SUV divisions that sell essentially the same products, with the only differences being in standard equipment and trim. I've heard a couple of opinions and explanations why, but to me it still doesn't make sense.
with the planet-and-rings logo. Like it or not, GM is doing quite well with its present line-up....though, yes, I'm glad that Buick was spared instead of Olds and Pontiac.One thing, though, that still puzzles me (though we're getting off-topic) is why GM's management still insists on two overlapping truck/SUV divisions that sell essentially the same products, with the only differences being in standard equipment and trim.
I've heard a couple of opinions and explanations why, but to me it still doesn't make sense. There are no cults out there wanting Saturn back. There is nothing to forget as Saturn is long forgotten
12-23-17, 03:36 PM
#110
Lexus Fanatic
Why does the video with a bunch of stupid teenagers nearly breaking their hands say it all? When an car maker has a good idea, there are immediate copy-cats; no other car company followed suit. That should really tell you something about the plastic body panels.
Not to mention that, with the right impact, you get cracks and tears, not dents. Why do you think the guy in the video is telling the puncher not to kick the door panel?
Not to mention that, with the right impact, you get cracks and tears, not dents. Why do you think the guy in the video is telling the puncher not to kick the door panel?
And, even if the panel DID crack and have to be replaced, it was usually a simple matter. Disconnect the wires to the lights/bulbs, unhook the panel-clips, remove old panel from the space-frame, clip the new one on, hook the wires back up, and, Presto......ready to go. You could often order new panels right from the factory pre-painted (with the special waterborne paint job), so they didn't even have to be painted in the shop. That's one reason why insurance companies liked the S-series so much...I remember, when I had mine, I had excellent rates.
12-23-17, 03:40 PM
#111
Lexus Fanatic
Read my posts, Jill. I said there WAS a cult, not necessarily IS. But I disagree that I'm one lone voice in the wilderness....I personally know a lot of people that liked the S-series, and still think it was a good idea.
12-23-17, 06:18 PM
#113
Lexus Champion
Are you talking about front fenders rather than rear fenders?
12-23-17, 10:39 PM
#115
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
just a reminder, this thread isn't about the lacrosse, saturns, or even how doors close.
if you have something to add about the enclave avenir, great.
if you have something to add about the enclave avenir, great.
after driving it, i think i appreciate the interior and features of my jeep grand cherokee even more.
12-23-17, 11:12 PM
#116
Saturn was once a cult, I lived 10 miles from the factory where they were built. Back in the 90's, they had their hippie Saturn homecoming several years in a row, with over 10,000 people camping out, doing drugs, listening to music, all that fun festival stuff. Saturn definetly had their marketing figured out in the 90's, its just that the product didn't improve and make that next leap forward in the late 90's/early 2000's, a lot of the Saturn faithful hated the Ion, that sealed the fate for the brand IMO, because the loyalists moved on to better cars like the Civic or the Prius.
12-24-17, 03:03 AM
#117
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by Aron9000
Saturn was once a cult, I lived 10 miles from the factory where they were built. Back in the 90's, they had their hippie Saturn homecoming several years in a row, with over 10,000 people camping out, doing drugs, listening to music, all that fun festival stuff. Saturn definetly had their marketing figured out in the 90's, its just that the product didn't improve and make that next leap forward in the late 90's/early 2000's, a lot of the Saturn faithful hated the Ion, that sealed the fate for the brand IMO, because the loyalists moved on to better cars like the Civic or the Prius.
From a purely personal perspective, I would have liked to have gone to the homecoming as an S-series owner....but, from what you say about it being like Woodstock with a bunch of pot-smoking, I'm glad I didn't. I strictly avoided that kind of atmosphere and culture...even as a youth.
I don't have the benefit (or hindsight) of several years of owning a JGC like you have, but, from my test-drives (done several), there's certainly no major complaints with it from my part. It's a great vehicle, with a nice interior and excellent road manners, though I thought the initial 2011 version rode a little smoother, and had maybe nicer-looking wood-tone trim inside, than the later ones. It doesn't seem quite as large inside as the Enclave, and, of course, lacks a third-row seat, but if you aren't carrying a family around regularly, that's not a big deal.
Did you also compare the Cadillac XT5 to the Enclave Avenir? Though lacking a third-row seat like the Enclave, it's got the same awkward E-shifter as the Lacrosse and Enclave....took me about a month or so to get used to mine. And, of course, the dreaded Cadillac CUE system that no one seems to like.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-24-17 at 03:19 AM.
12-24-17, 03:57 AM
#118
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Saturn was once a cult, I lived 10 miles from the factory where they were built. Back in the 90's, they had their hippie Saturn homecoming several years in a row, with over 10,000 people camping out, doing drugs, listening to music, all that fun festival stuff. Saturn definetly had their marketing figured out in the 90's, its just that the product didn't improve and make that next leap forward in the late 90's/early 2000's, a lot of the Saturn faithful hated the Ion, that sealed the fate for the brand IMO, because the loyalists moved on to better cars like the Civic or the Prius.
Absolutely. The Ion, despite the nice plastic body panels, was an abomination compared to the S-series. I remember when I test-drove it, I couldn't help but come up with the same conclusion that Car and Driver did........."we waited over a dozen years for THIS?"
From a purely personal perspective, I would have liked to have gone to the homecoming as an S-series owner....but, from what you say about it being like Woodstock with a bunch of pot-smoking, I'm glad I didn't. I strictly avoided that kind of atmosphere and culture...even as a youth.
.
From a purely personal perspective, I would have liked to have gone to the homecoming as an S-series owner....but, from what you say about it being like Woodstock with a bunch of pot-smoking, I'm glad I didn't. I strictly avoided that kind of atmosphere and culture...even as a youth.
.
Folks please start a new Saturn or pot smoking thread, keep this on topic as requested
12-24-17, 07:02 AM
#119
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
I don't know if you saw my earlier post, but, if Lincoln decides to go ahead with production, it might be a good idea to also compare the upcoming Lincoln Aviator to the Avenir (and to the Enclave in general). Looks like it might be good potential competition....it will be done on the next-generation Explorer platform.
I don't have the benefit (or hindsight) of several years of owning a JGC like you have, but, from my test-drives (done several), there's certainly no major complaints with it from my part. It's a great vehicle, with a nice interior and excellent road manners, though I thought the initial 2011 version rode a little smoother, and had maybe nicer-looking wood-tone trim inside, than the later ones.
jeep:
avenir:
the avenir looks more modern maybe but i think the jeep's materials are much higher quality.
It doesn't seem quite as large inside as the Enclave, and, of course, lacks a third-row seat, but if you aren't carrying a family around regularly, that's not a big deal.
Did you also compare the Cadillac XT5 to the Enclave Avenir? Though lacking a third-row seat like the Enclave, it's got the same awkward E-shifter as the Lacrosse and Enclave....took me about a month or so to get used to mine. And, of course, the dreaded Cadillac CUE system that no one seems to like.
12-24-17, 07:20 AM
#120
Lexus Fanatic
my jeep has open pore real wood so it's not wood-tone anything. looks and feels great. this thread of course is not about the jeep but just for comparison with this new avenir:
jeep:
avenir:
the avenir looks more modern maybe but i think the jeep's materials are much higher quality.
o.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 12-24-17 at 07:31 AM.