Ford May Kill the Fusion in the US
12-20-17, 07:01 PM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
It would be a difficult comparison for the upcoming MY2018 because Optima is on its current platform vs Camry on its brand new architecture. I think there's a subtle psychology with buyers maybe deciding to look at brand new platforms.
388K for MY 2016 and MY 2017, which is the outgoing car, looks to be closing in on 344K. Optima is 124K in 2016, and is sitting on 100K 2017 ytd. Quite lopsided.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...sales-figures/
388K for MY 2016 and MY 2017, which is the outgoing car, looks to be closing in on 344K. Optima is 124K in 2016, and is sitting on 100K 2017 ytd. Quite lopsided.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...sales-figures/
The proof of whether or not Hyundai or KIA is on par with Toyota is with sale numbers, price points, resale, reliability indexes, and brand value. You would see a seismic shift of buyer habits if those who actually buy Toyotas were switchimg to Hyundai. Toyota is I think the #8 most valuable brand in the world in the top 10 with Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, Coca Cola. I wonder where Hyundai is?
12-20-17, 07:04 PM
#17
Lexus Champion
What's interesting is that the other thread about the Regal indicates that there will be a TourX AWD wagon coming to the US. Ford could have done this too with a Mondeo wagon as well as the hatchback. In Europe you have the Mondeo hatch and a wagon in AWD. And Ford has been touting their version of an Audi with what's casually being termed an "all road" version.
I'm not a big Ford fan but there is something to say about Fusion as a competitive car, but most of it's being saved for the European market.
Mondeo hatch.
Mondeo wagon
I'm not a big Ford fan but there is something to say about Fusion as a competitive car, but most of it's being saved for the European market.
Mondeo hatch.
Mondeo wagon
12-20-17, 07:08 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
What's interesting is that the other thread about the Regal indicates that there will be a TourX AWD wagon coming to the US. Ford could have done this too with a Mondeo wagon as well as the hatchback. In Europe you have the Mondeo hatch and a wagon in AWD. And Ford has been touting their version of an Audi with what's casually being termed an "all road" version.
I'm not a big Ford fan but there is something to say about Fusion as a competitive car, but most of it's being saved for the European market.
Mondeo hatch.
Mondeo wagon
I'm not a big Ford fan but there is something to say about Fusion as a competitive car, but most of it's being saved for the European market.
Mondeo hatch.
Mondeo wagon
They gen could be different and have a different name. I doubt Ford will cancel it.
12-20-17, 07:09 PM
#19
Lexus Champion
The proof of whether or not Hyundai or KIA is on par with Toyota is with sale numbers, price points, resale, reliability indexes, and brand value. You would see a seismic shift of buyer habits if those who actually buy Toyotas were switchimg to Hyundai. Toyota is I think the #8 most valuable brand in the world in the top 10 with Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, Coca Cola. I wonder where Hyundai is?
12-20-17, 07:14 PM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
Well there's no doubt that in Canada Optima made a splash when it first came on market but lately the sales numbers are dismal. But I sure see a lot of Hyundai and Kia products around, so it's not necessarily a case of the entire line of vehicles languishing. Canada is basically a CUV market because of the concerns about winter belt driving in semi-rural areas which covers a huge chunk of the country.
No doubt Hyundai is doing better. But Toyota and Honda cars consistently command a higher price premium than their immediate competitors. A brand that could charge more than a Toyota is Volkswagen in some circumstances.
Do you see my point of view?
Do you see my point of view?
12-20-17, 08:10 PM
#21
Lexus Champion
For example, you can have a brand like FCA which has jumped in average transaction prices but I doubt they make better vehicles than Honda or Toyota. What's probably driving those numbers is Ram and Jeep sales numbers. As for Kia/Hyundai, I guess you can say that those are for the smart bargain shopper since you get a similar vehicle for thousands less.
In Canada it's the Civic that's been the traditional best seller is it not?
12-20-17, 08:44 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Yeah, that's what we can call the "Japan quality perception" premium. Consumers like to check out the go-to cars first when they start looking around for a new vehicle. There's no doubt that Accord and Camry have this vibe going on and its based on facts: they simply have well engineered durable cars that have been that way for a long time. My big worry about average transaction prices is more in relation to whether or not the US, or Canadian consumer who looks at such cars might not be able to afford this segment at some point.
For example, you can have a brand like FCA which has jumped in average transaction prices but I doubt they make better vehicles than Honda or Toyota. What's probably driving those numbers is Ram and Jeep sales numbers. As for Kia/Hyundai, I guess you can say that those are for the smart bargain shopper since you get a similar vehicle for thousands less.
In Canada it's the Civic that's been the traditional best seller is it not?
For example, you can have a brand like FCA which has jumped in average transaction prices but I doubt they make better vehicles than Honda or Toyota. What's probably driving those numbers is Ram and Jeep sales numbers. As for Kia/Hyundai, I guess you can say that those are for the smart bargain shopper since you get a similar vehicle for thousands less.
In Canada it's the Civic that's been the traditional best seller is it not?
I think Civic, Accord, Corolla, Camry, and Elantra are in the top 10. Gas and tax prices help determine that. And yes, a smart bargain shopper, but at some point Hyundai will have to come in line and try to charge the same prices as Toyota or Honda. It's about making money and as long as they change more, they make more. American cars I think have always had higher transactions than Toyota. Just started watching that recently. Interesting to note is that Cadillac has a higher transaction than Lexus.
Thanks for having a nice discussion about this.
Thanks for having a nice discussion about this.
12-20-17, 09:26 PM
#23
Ford may discontinue the Fusion name, but I doubt they are abandoning the midsize sedan. Maybe the current huge on the outside tight on the inside Taurus will die off and a new, smaller car under the Taurus name will replace both the large Taurus and the midsize Fusion.
12-20-17, 10:18 PM
#24
Ford may discontinue the Fusion name, but I doubt they are abandoning the midsize sedan. Maybe the current huge on the outside tight on the inside Taurus will die off and a new, smaller car under the Taurus name will replace both the large Taurus and the midsize Fusion.
12-21-17, 06:06 AM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
, so a new Ford version is possible. The Fusion platform stretch for the Continental got rid of the big outside/small inside issue the plagued the MKS.
12-21-17, 08:07 AM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
the term 'platform' is overused, abused, and basically irrelevant.
12-21-17, 08:30 AM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
Sort of agree. However, if Ford goes or might have already done it (I don't know) gone to a complete flexible platform like the new Lexus or Toyota platforms, then the cars don't need to sell as high in the number to be justified. When looking at the LS for example, you need to consider all sales off the platform to determine if the vehicle is successful.
12-21-17, 09:34 AM
#28
Steve
12-21-17, 10:00 AM
#29
'MAY' kill is the opportune word. Unless there's an official press release that says 'Fusion killed', Count me on the 'It's not going anywhere side'. I agree they could drop the Fusion name, but the Taurus is more likely to be discontinued of the two of them. The Fusion/Mondeo is a world car, Taurus is not. With AWD, Hybrid, Energi PHEV, Sport EcoBoost options, Ford certainly covered their bases when comparing the Fusion to any of it's competitors. Cadillac plans to consolidate their sedans, I can see Ford doing the same, but they won't abandon the Midsize/Large segment.
12-21-17, 10:20 AM
#30
^^^ Good point. Ford is on target to sell over 200,000+ fusions this year alone. Although that number has dropped, that is still a huge number of cars! If they were truly going to kill the fusion, management is probably considering the time and resources to develop a brand new fusion. With all the mechanical design, ee hw, fw, sw, and new technology they are packing into cars nowadays, that is a huge number, where they could allocate for the trucks, suv's, mustangs etc not unless they want to create a more economical or basic midsize sedan