MattyG

I would think so, because if they're willing to abandon a model that sold 200K in 2017 in the US, then they'll definitely be looking to not invest in the Mondeo which sold 70K in the same year in Europe.

This sounds very plausible. The CEO said he wants to consolidate and cut costs and the company's denying that they would import the China production output into Europe/US. So they'll likely just merge Fiesta/Focus and Fusion/Mondeo/Taurus into uhh... Taufurus .

Aron9000

Talk like this reminds me of about 9-10 years ago when gas became stupid expensive. The Detroit 3 were caught with their pants down, making undesirable cars and up to then very popular gas guzzling trucks and SUV's. The market flipped on them, everybody wanted a smaller, more fuel efficient car and Detroit was just not competitive in those segments. Toyota cleaned house and sold god knows how many gen 2 Priuses. Two of the Detroit 3 went belly up and had to be bailed out by the taxpayers.

To even think about cutting out small cars entirely is IMO reckless. If the market flips again away from SUV's/trucks, its going to be worse than 2007-2008 if you don't even offer small, economical, cheaper cars. Its one thing if you aren't competitive in the small/midsize car segment, its an entirely different thing if you don't even offer cars in that segment. If you aren't competitive, you can always sell small cars on price, price them cheaper than a Honda/Toyota, people will buy them. And hell if somebody did like their Fiesta, maybe in 3 years when they're making more $$$$ they will go buy that $50,000 Explorer.

Fizzboy7

Yes, that's what many of us in this thread have been saying from the start. 2008 was not that long ago. Gas prices go up and down and will continue to. When gas gets to be expensive again, the brands that have cut their cars will have nothing to sell. To not plan for these events is very short-sided. A well-rounded company has a vehicle for all types and all niches.

theory816

People arn't going to go back to smaller cars because of the higher gas. They will just travel less. Plus suvs nowadays have better mileage.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

mmarshall

True, the Venza (along with the Hondas Crosstour) never even approached the sales level of its Outback rival....but two things were at play there. First, the Outback, like the F-150/Silverado, Camry, and Accord in theirs, is basically the King of that segment.....raised, sedan-based AWD wagons. So, naturally, it's going to be very difficult for newcomers to try and get a piece of it....though Buick is now trying with its new Regal Tour-X wagon. Second, Toyota itself screwed up the Venza's marketing with the standard 19" (4-cylinder) and 20" (V6) wheels. Those buying this type of vehicle are (usually) not in the market for sport-sedan suspension or wheels. The relatively stiff ride with those big wagon-wheels and rubber-band tires (as opposed to the Outback's relative comfort) put off a number of potential Venza buyers. I said, at the time, that I thought those wheels were a mistake, and got roundly criticized from some of the die-hard Toyota fans. But....history spoke for itself.

I'll let Jill handle that one....she owned a CT.

Sulu

The Fusion is a core vehicle in a traditionally high-selling segment, the heart of a North American automaker's lineup. The CT, being a hatchback (but with no crossover vehicle styling cues) is on the fringe of the Lexus lineup; and it is likely to be replaced by the UX crossover. The Venza is a derivative vehicle, derived from the core Camry. If Toyota North America was considering killing off the Camry, with no vehicle planned to replace it, there would be a similar outcry.

The last time North American automakers found themselves without viable, competitive core-segment vehicles, they nearly toppled into bankruptcy.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

tradition isn't what it used to be the fusion may be ford's highest selling sedan in the u.s. but its sales are dwarfed by suvs like escape and explorer.
edit: i see last month ford's u.s. sedan sales were just over half their suv sales and just over a third of their truck sales!

ford hasn't said they're killing off the fusion, only that the replacement program has been stopped, but that of course can be reversed, but i think ford sees the writing on the wall... by the time a new, presumably 'traditional' replacement was ready, the market will have dwindled further, and also the implications of self-driving and electric cars are unclear. regardless, the majority of buyers have moved to suvs and the fusion will carry on selling - it's still a nice car!

except for accord and camry (which only honda and toyota seem to be effectively competing against with their own crv and rav4 utes!) the sedan market is no longer a core segment compared to suvs and trucks if i understand your meaning.

Sulu

I have said this before and I believe that it needs to be repeated...

Americans are very fashion conscious and once a fashion trend is over. they will drop those products like a bomb. I believe that, like minivans, crossover utility vehicles are the current fashion and once that fashion trend ends, automakers and their dealers left with unsold CUVs will be trying to get rid of them at firesale prices and then dropping them from the lineups.

There will, however, always be some demand for sedans (cars), even if there seems to be a lower demand right now. If GM and Ford and Chrysler get rid of cars completely from their North American lineups, and leave no facility to quickly bring them back when demand for cars suddenly increases again, they will run into trouble.

oldcajun

Ford's delay in designing the next Fusion might be a good strategy. It gives them time to evaluate how Honda and Toyota fare with the new Accord and Camry. If one dominates the market, it might provide direction for any redesign. If they both fail to sell well, then goodbye Fusion.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

fixed that for you. you might look at china for example - holy brand-craving...

actually, china's demands will influence everything everywhere. and since they love buicks, including sedans, i don't see them going away.

probably true but i don't see that for a long time, and it's gradual... just like declining sedan sales.

if bigfoot appears in times square...

hey, could happen.

but seriously, u.s. car brands are NOT getting rid of their sedans completely. besides, not sure why the discussion is about gm, ford, and chrysler... chrysler is owned by italian fiat, and i consider honda every bit as american these days and they're clearly not about to drop the civic or accord. really all makers are pretty global.

i consider that a hypothetical that is highly unlikely.

and past history is no indicator of the future as tech and preferences (yeah fashion too) is changing so fast. uber, self-driving cars, increased public transportation, migration/building patterns, generational turnover, to name a few. plus city needs (small cars) are very different than suburbs (cuv/suvs) which is different than rural (trucks).

arentz07

I think transverse, FWD-based CUVs would provide a nice "platform" (there's the overused word again) upon which to rebuild the sedan fleet... Just saying - I definitely don't wish to be surrounded by Nissan-Rogue-esque vehicles everywhere I go, but it wouldn't be the apocalypse for four-doors.

Yeah, even luxury CUVs seem to be taking some of the share of buyers from the market as well. I was posting on a thread about the NX recently, and said if I could have two cars (in addition to the wife's car), I'd have something similar to the NX as a daily, and something smaller and more fun for weekends. I think this also has to do with the recent trend of sedans, whether we are talking four-doors or coupés, becoming quite a bit more sporty while CUVs remain comfort-oriented for the most part (outside of some craziness from Germany and Italy, and perhaps the Mazda CUV line). I'd say the old-school luxury shopper would appreciate the softer ride and higher seating position over a low-to-the-ground, stiffly-sprung car. Now, that's not saying all sedans are sporty. Some, even in the luxury space, especially the mid- and full-size models, are quite comfy and not exactly performance-focused. However, it seems that the mainstream, family sedan space has gotten more sporty of late - again with some exceptions. I'm not sure if this shift has contributed to the somewhat lower sedan sales numbers, or if it's merely a reflection of the outward perception of comfort given off by your typical CUV when compared with a similarly-sized sedan.

And no way is a Camry a weekend car. Been there, done that. The new models look like they would be more "fun to drive", but I wouldn't go out of my way to attack a winding mountain road in one, like I did with the IS (totally worth it btw). Call me a snob - probably true.

mmarshall

I agree that Americans are fashion-conscious (IMO sometimes too much so, which has given us these ridiculously large wheels/rubber-band tires and hump-back rooflines). But I disagree with the notion that the current craze with CUVs is going away anytime soon. First, they have been with us more than two decades now, and sales keep increasing each year...they show no sign whatsoever of slacking, no matter what gas prices are. Second, the public likes them for good, practical reasons....not just fads. The added ground-clearance and AWD make them essentially all-weather machines; the boxy designs (usually) give more room inside for passengers and cargo; the high-driving stance gives the outward view that a lot of drivers want, and, due to a number of newer engineering features, their gas mileage is now about on a par with sedans. So, my view is.....get used to them. They're going to be with us quite a while. After all.....look how long sedans themselves stuck around.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

great posts arentz and mmarshall.

another reason cuvs/suvs are not going away in popularity is they've been enabled by tech through things like direct injection and precisely controlled turbos in recent years to not have any significant downside over a sedan. and now with ford making the new expedition from aluminum, they're lowering the weight significantly.

UDel

If it is time for a new vehicle and gas prices have gone up many people will choose a more fuel efficient vehicle, they generally did that in 2008 until prices went down. If people already own a CUV or less fuel efficient vehicle especially one that is paid off the smart ones will just drive less and not dump it unless they want to waste a lot more money buying a newer hybrid or more fuel efficient vehicle just to save a little gas money.