bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

the rogue is doing extremely well, over 400k sold in '17!

mmarshall

DeLorean, BTW, snuck through the GTO project in (technical) defiance of his superiors. He was in charge of Pontiac at the time, whose cars doing quite well on NASCAR tracks in spite of GM's upper-management ban on racing-sponsorship. (in those days, in stock-car racing, there wasn't much difference between a track and street car...certainly not like today). Anyhow, DeLorean got an idea for an inexpensive muscle-car for the street that would be smaller, lighter, faster, and more maneuverable than the full-sized, big-engined Chrysler 300, Pontiac Grand Prix, and Chevy Impala SS. He secretly ordered a compact Pontiac Tempest produced with the big 389 c.i. (6.4L) installed....rumor has it that he also ordered one with Pontiac's largest (421 c.i. / 6.9L) somehow shoehorned in, but I've not seen any verification of that. Anyhow, he liked the 389 Trim-Power (3 twin-carb) package, chose the Ferrari-derived GTO nameplate for it, and was convinced that it would sell. No dice, said upper management....not approved. So, he basically put his job on the line, and (again, secretly) ordered it into production. The car, of course, sold like hotcakes, made GM a lot of money that year, and, of course, in business, money talks. DeLoreans's bosses not only forgave him for direct defiance of orders, but, later, transferred him to Chevy where he could work on their products. He later, of course, left GM to start his own company...he never really liked the structure at GM, and (not surprisingly) was disgusted with the Chevy Vega, which had previously been developed and approved too late for him to stop it. The Vega, of course, was Ed Cole's pet project....it later got a reputation as one of GM's deadly sins.


I briefly owned two K-car derivatives myself. IMO, they were only slightly more reliable than their GM X-body disaster-rivals (another one of GM's deadly sins). And they ended to rattle and squeak more than the X-cars. These cars sold mainly because of Iacocca's smooth-talk, the loyalty of a number of people to Chrysler products (it was simply hard, in their minds, for some people to switch to Japanese products, no matter how unreliable American cars of the period were), their decent fuel economy, and the benefits of FWD traction in the winter. I confess that there were a few things I liked about them myself, but just had too many problems with them for my satisfaction, and finally dumped American makes for Mazda.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

there was that small problem of the $24 million cocaine deal for which he was arrested (and acquitted) and later major fraud issue that went on for years.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-h...n-cocaine-deal

mmarshall

De Lorean maintained, till the moment he passed away, that the drug-plant and arrest was a set-up. He had several known enemies, at the time, that were just itching to see him go out of business. And, of course, as you noted, he was acquitted at the trial....his lawyers successfully made the case that he was entrapped. But his public image never recovered after that. He made a later effort to revive the bankrupt company, without success. When he died in 2005, he was given full military honors for his service in WWII.

Much of this, BTW, is told in his autobiography...I have a copy of it (and of Lee Iacocca's), a part of my automotive library. I recommend both if you have not already read them.





Of course, his company never was really on a solid footing, financially, to start with. He chose Northern Ireland, with an inexperienced work-force, for the plant. Then he had to go to the British Parliament and talk them into financing most of the deal in the first place. Then, he made several engineering/design errors. First, he used an archaic and unreliable V6 from Renault/Volvo/Peugeot (he originally wanted a Wankel rotary but couldn't get one). Second, he insisted, against the advice of his designers, on a hard-to-clean, expensive-to-produce stainless steel body that made all of the cars look exactly alike. Third, he insisted on gull-wing doors that his engineers warned hm would be troublesome...and they were. The factory-workers and equipment never could get the assembly process right for the doors....they were electrically-operated (no mechanical handles) and sometimes jammed. Worse, if the car rolled over, you were trapped inside....the doors could not open. Rain water leaks were notorious...because of the door/roof design, it would leak in right on your clothes. And, of course, his tiny company didn't have GM's (at that time) vast resources to fall back on when things went south.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

I read the iococca book years ago. Quite interesring and entertaining but he was very arrogant.

i did chuckle that the letters of his name corresponded with I Am Chairman Of Chrysler Corporation America.

mmarshall

Yep, that's Lido...but his arrogance was probably nothing compared to that of King Henry over at Ford, who fired him and Hal Sperlich. Anyhow, Lido was only doing his job as a businessman (which was to sell cars) but he talked out of both sides of his mouth (and, IMO, sold the public on a bill of goods)...rambling on and on about the K-car's quality, when it was obvious to anyone with two eyes and ears that Toyota and Honda were making a laughingstock out of what Detroit was producing back then. I myself got burned, more than once, buying his products (and a Chevy Citation from GM)....and I learned.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

chevy citation? haha, what an awful vehicle.

mmarshall

Almost every day, I found another defect in it, and some, such as front-end shimmies and a brake-force imbalance, never were resolved. The white, non-clearcoat paint was so thin that, on the roof, you could see dark swirl marks through it from the primer underneath. The carburetor's choke butterfly, set up for emissions, would shut off within a block or so of a cold start, and then stumble and hesitate clear to China until warm. The 4MT, with overdrive gearing, had BIG gaps between the four speeds, with a super-awkward clutch that had to be revved and slipped to keep it from bucking. The clutch, in fact, self-destructed at only 13K, and the warranty in those days was only 1/12, but Chevy went 50/50 with me on the replacement. I sold it, not long after that, to a guy in Maryland who wanted it even with its problems (I firmly believe in honesty when selling a car, and don't try to cover things up), and went over to a K-Car Reliant, which was somewhat of an improvement mechanically and in paint, but had even more rattles. After the Reliant, I decided to try the more plush Chrysler Lebaron K-car version of it.....more problems, almost as bad as the Citation's. Finally I just said screw it...I'm not wasting one more penny on this American junk, and converted to Japanese makes, where I stayed until I got my Saturn S-series....a good small car.

You're probably wondering.....How did marshall, who inspects a car so thoroughly, wind up with these lemons? Well, number one, in those days, I didn't buy new cars off the lot where I could adequately check them out before signing for them...I ordered them direct from the factory with the color/options I wanted. In those days, you often couldn't always just simply order an American car and expect it to be delivered in good condition...certainly not like my Lacrosse, which was also special-ordered, but was very well built. Number two, some of these problems were not manifest when the car was brand-new, right out of the factory, but developed very quickly as the car aged....often in the first coiuple-thousand miles. Number three, I made the mistake of joining a carpool, where the needs of the pool itself had to be taken into consideration of what I bought and drove, not just my own desires...this was before the time of the D.C. area subway (I would have been better off not joining the pool). Number four, I was still very close to my late father, and he was a dyed-in-the-wool Chrysler fan, and put pressure on me to stick with the brand, even past the brand's prime in the 1960s, when their quality started suffering....he never approved of me getting the Citation (or my big Buick in college LOL). Before the Citation, I had had a 1978 Plymouth Horizon which was also problematic, with Warp-O-Matic brake rotors and a defective transmission.....I bought the FWD Horizon because, commuting by car every day back then, I wanted better winter traction than my former (reliable) Slant-Six Duster had given me.

So, obviously, I learned about American cars of that period the hard way, just like many others did....by getting burned, some of it my own fault for making the decisions I did, but much of it beyond my control.

The Citation (and the other X-Bodies) were a real shame, because, had they been properly engineered/developed/tested before they were released to the public (which they clearly weren't), size-wise and looks-wise, IMO they were exactly the right cars at exactly the right time..the second major gas crisis. But part of the problem was their own success. Chevy sold almost a million Citations its first year in 1980 (not counting the other Phoenix/Skylark/Omega X-bodies), and they were simply run through the assembly lines too quick and slipshod for adequate quality-control....plus inadequate engineering. One of my co-workers, BTW, bought the Citation's sister car, the Pontiac Phoenix, and also had numerous problems, the worst being that rain water leaked in past even closed windows/doors and soaked the carpets.

MattyG

Ioccoca and a DeLorean were big egos at a time when the industry thrived on bombast and bluster. DeLorean was a rebel as long as he remained in the GM system but he found out that things weren't so easy once he had ditched big daddy GM's house. Ioccoca was just an egotist but a very competent one who came along at a time when Chryco needed a big name to come riding up on a white horse and rescue it.

Mary Barra is going to be good for GM despite inheriting its troubles. She's someone who progressed to to the upper executive class, after climbing the ranks. No drama, no big bombastic ego and a centered personality.

mmarshall

Iacocca later said that, had he known that Chrysler's managing system was actually as bad as it was, he would probably not have taken the job. After all, by then, he had probably earned enough money at Ford to retire ten times over. But he was a businessman to the core....I don't think he could have lived without being in the auto-selling business.

She also did not have any responsibility for the ignition-switch fiasco, though some critics have tried to drag her in as part of those involved.

MattyG

Yeah, that's probably why they dragged her out to do press for the fiasco. She'll have to make sure that things like that don't happen again. OTH she's been a team player since 1980 so she probably doesn't care about taking the hit for the team. The old guys club never let a woman run the game in the past. Now they'll learn something.

mmarshall

GM is not a total stranger to having female managers. Cynthia Trudell ran the Saturn Division at the time the division started its downfall, but it is unclear whether the problems and mismanagement at Saturn were her own doing, or pressure from her male bosses in upper-GM management....most likely a combination of both. With Mary Barra, of course, on the other hand, as CEO, the buck stops at her desk......it can't go up any higher. She seems to be doing a good job, though.....and, like I said in the OP, a breath of fresh air at that place.

mmarshall

Anybody have personal preferences (or opinions) as to who in the auto industry today (executives, Division Presidents, CEOs, etc...) is doing the best job?...or simply occupying a chair behind a desk and drawing a big salary for doing essentially nothing?

I'll start by saying I have a high opinion of the team at Hyundai (and I'll give them a joint multi-award, rather than to just one single person) for approving and working hard to implement the new Genesis division. Even though the division currently lacks SUVs (which they are working on), the sedans they sell are, IMO, superb products for the money. It would be better, of course, if the brand had stand-alone dealerships (I understand a few are not stand-alone)...but that will probably come with time and budget. I also have a very high opinion of Mary Barra, who took over a bankrupt, scandal-ridden GM corporation traditionally run by bean-counters and, bureaucratically, as stubborn as a mule about instituting any real change. She's gone a LONG way towards undoing the damage that many of her predecessors did, going back as far as the 1960s.....although I still find it odd that GM runs two different divisions to sell what essentially are simply re-badged versions of the same Chevy/GMC trucks and SUVs. Someone else who deserves a lot of credit is Ford's Alan Mulally, who, though gone for over three years now, made many good decisions at Ford, selling off unproductive divisions like Volvo, Jaguar, and Land Rover. His decisions cost a fair number of jobs (as often happens at auto companies)...but they helped Ford get through the 2000s without a special buy-out/takeover....something that couldn't be said for GM or Chrysler.


My worst opinion (perhaps not surprisingly) is that of ex-VW CEO Ferdinand Peich, who stepped down not that long ago. It was strongly suspected (though not totally proven) that he was ultimately behind the VW diesel-emission scandal. That would fit in perfectly with his management attitude.....no excuses, do the job and get results on paper, no matter how you do it, legal or illegal. Bob Lutz (who I also have a high opinion of) tells the story of when he was at a dinner given for auto executives, and ended up sitting next to Peich. He told Peich that he was impressed with the fit/finish and gap tolerances of the then-latest-generation Golf. Peich replied: "Ah, Mr. Lutz.....you like that?". Lutz asked him how he was able to do it with a limited budget, even considering VW's great size.....he had been trying for years to get better quality at Chrysler and GM, without much success. Piech replied...."Simple. I called in all of my division engineers, designers, management, and staff, told them I was sick and tired of looking at sloppy workmanship, I had all of their names and positions, and that they had six weeks from that day to start producing better results. If I don't see better results in six weeks, turn in your resignations. You see the results, Mr. Lutz."

I also am not terribly impressed with Renault/Nissan's Carlos Ghosn, who, in a cult-like quest to slash costs, turned what was once one of Japan's finest auto manufacturers into a maker of El Cheapo Meh-mobiles with flimsy plastic interiors....while putting funds into expensive supercars like the Skyline GT-R that, IMO, could have been better-used elsewhere. Today, Nissans are somewhat more respectable, but, for a time, at the height the cost-cutting, their fit/finish was bordering on the shocking. And reliability has also suffered from what it was back when the vehicles were Japanese-designed, without the French influence.

Someone I'll put more or less in the middle is FCA's CEO, Sergio Marchionne. I'll give him some brownie points for getting Fiat established back in the American market, where it is getting at least some customer acceptance despite its reputation for unreliability, and for personally ordering (and getting) major improvements in the fit/finish and assembly quality of Chrysler products, though one-term reliability still lacks in some of them. The story is that when Fiat first bought out Chrysler, he inspected the entire Chrysler line of vehicles, and was so disgusted with how they were built (even comparing them to Fiats LOL) that he personally issued orders that they would do better......though not quite in the brutal, dictatorial way that Peich did at VW. The rest is history. I give him some demerits, though, for recently acting like the job (and company) is a noose around his neck, not being realistic about his role as Top Dog any more, and basically wanting to just unload FCA off on another manufacturer who will come in and take over paying the bills.

Stroock639

i know he's dead and hasn't really made any contributions in probably over a decade but i gotta give a shout out to my man Eiji Toyoda! i mean it's thanks to him clublexus.com can even exist and he was presiding during the creation of pretty much all of my favorite toyotas. i consider the LS his crowning achievement as a leader of industry... with 1 single car he basically proved the entire world wrong and made the germans crap themselves and rethink their approach to luxury cars.

speaking of the germans (how's that for your segway), i think mercedes seems to be doing well so that's Dieter Zetsche covered... his predecessor Jürgen Schrempp was running the show during my favorite era of mercedes (the kompressor era) when things like the SLR, my E55, and all the other crazy AMG creations like the 65 series V12 Biturbo started to happen. i also just love the styling from that era, but i might be biased since that's what i grew up with.

he just recently retired less than a year ago so i feel the need to mention Ron Dennis in this list. he oversaw mclaren's dominance in formula one and was responsible for the stunningly beautiful mclaren technology centre where all the magic (including the assembly of the SLR) happens. it was also dennis who gave the go ahead for Gordon Murray to build my all time favorite supercar, the McLaren F1, which i still hold in the highest regard today. if i saw one going the opposite direction i can't tell you how dangerous of a u-turn i'd probably pull just to catch up and see it up close lol... the P1 is ridiculously awesome and all, but to me it'll never be what the F1 was and still is.

Stroock639

i guess things like the Bugatti Veyron and Volkswagen Phaeton don't do it for you? so Bob Lutz, who never got better quality at GM (i have proof) and reigned during its bankruptcy, is held in higher regard than the grandson of Dr. Porsche himself because Piëch managed like more of a ****? well another CEO who can fit into this category, and i'm literally typing on one of his creations as we speak, is Steve Jobs. he was also known for being very difficult to work for and having random temper tantrums at people and firing them on the spot. a totalitarian attitude is frequently required in such positions if you want to see results. people tend to be more motivated when a fire it lit under their ***. idk but i think the achievements of Piëch far outshine those of Lutz, whether or not he was directly behind dieselgate which definitely wasn't good and has effectively tarnished VW's reputation forever. i'll leave hypotheticals out of this and base this purely on my experience with their respective products, and the products of the VW group i've driven have all been nicer to use than the GMs and seem to work better for longer.