Cadillac CT6 to drop standard turbo 4 for 2019.
01-10-18, 07:39 PM
#16
The CT6's 2.0T was not intended to be a large portion of U.S. sales, it exists for China with its ultra strict engine displacement regulations. So all the engineering/tuning/development was done, there's literally minimal cost to offer it up in America. It wasn't popular, so they can pull it from the U.S., no problem. It's still part of the CT6 plug in drivetrain.
Cadillacs smaller cars, they're designed around what a BMW was all about back 10-15 years ago. Granted stuff like driving dynamics might really sell cars in Europe, but in the US nobody associates Cadillac with sport sedans, and people really don't want cars that ride that stiff in this country. BMW softened up the ride and slopplied up the handling of their cars and started building 7 different SUV/not quite a wagon variants, sales have never been better.
Last edited by Aron9000; 01-10-18 at 07:43 PM.
01-10-18, 08:52 PM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Good news, they learned 4 cylinders don't belong in flagship luxury cars, they don't belong in mid level luxury cars either. They should have given the CT6 a nice V8 option for not too much money instead of a 4 cyl standard. It is a really nice looking car, interior not so much.
01-10-18, 09:30 PM
#18
Good news, they learned 4 cylinders don't belong in flagship luxury cars, they don't belong in mid level luxury cars either. They should have given the CT6 a nice V8 option for not too much money instead of a 4 cyl standard. It is a really nice looking car, interior not so much.
Right now if you want some LS V8 in your Cadillac, you have two choices, a huge $90,000 Escalade, or a completely ridiculous to most people 650hp 4 door Corvette Z06 called the CTS-V, which is also $90,000. And price those V8 ATS and CTS cars in that sweet spot of the $45-55k range with no options. They don't have to be total monsters, but a 400hp V8 for the same price as your competitor's 4 or 6 cylinder, well there is your real market differentiation, something to get people talking about Cadillac.
Last edited by Aron9000; 01-10-18 at 09:37 PM.
01-11-18, 05:16 AM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
Been carping on this forever, Cadillac needs some corporate LS series V8 love at affordable prices. These are the best engines GM makes, they should be an option in every Cadillac, even mid-level, reasonably priced trims of the ATS, CTS, CT6, and XT5. I know people think XT5, transverse engine, FWD car based, LS V8 won't fit/work. GM did LS V8 engine variants of the mid 2000's Pontiac Grand Prix, Chevy Impala and Monte Carlo.
Right now if you want some LS V8 in your Cadillac, you have two choices, a huge $90,000 Escalade, or a completely ridiculous to most people 650hp 4 door Corvette Z06 called the CTS-V, which is also $90,000. And price those V8 ATS and CTS cars in that sweet spot of the $45-55k range with no options. They don't have to be total monsters, but a 400hp V8 for the same price as your competitor's 4 or 6 cylinder, well there is your real market differentiation, something to get people talking about Cadillac.
Right now if you want some LS V8 in your Cadillac, you have two choices, a huge $90,000 Escalade, or a completely ridiculous to most people 650hp 4 door Corvette Z06 called the CTS-V, which is also $90,000. And price those V8 ATS and CTS cars in that sweet spot of the $45-55k range with no options. They don't have to be total monsters, but a 400hp V8 for the same price as your competitor's 4 or 6 cylinder, well there is your real market differentiation, something to get people talking about Cadillac.
Again, my feeling with GM is they always take the exact same motor (like that 3.6 V6) and tune it differently, so they can advertise HP. The torque is at some low plateau, but that is not advertised, the HP at some unusable rpm is...
01-11-18, 08:15 AM
#20
This is what I think is wrong with GM and Cadillac. Designing cars for other markets then selling them in America thinking its what America wants and what Americans expect in a Cadillac. The reason the CT6 is kind of a weird size, larger than a Benz E-class and smaller than the S-class, its what the Chinese market wants. America, its go big or go home IMO, both in flagship sedans and SUVs(Cadillac at least gets that one right in the Escalade). The Benz S-class dominates this segment, even though its the most expensive. Its a huge car titled towards luxury, its brash, it makes a statement, it has several honking 400+hp turbo V8 and turbo V12s to choose from, it brings new levels of technology and the fit/finish on this newer generation is pretty comparable to a Bentley or Rolls Royce that costs WAY more. Cadillac isn't even on the same page with the CT6.
Cadillacs smaller cars, they're designed around what a BMW was all about back 10-15 years ago. Granted stuff like driving dynamics might really sell cars in Europe, but in the US nobody associates Cadillac with sport sedans, and people really don't want cars that ride that stiff in this country. BMW softened up the ride and slopplied up the handling of their cars and started building 7 different SUV/not quite a wagon variants, sales have never been better.
Cadillacs smaller cars, they're designed around what a BMW was all about back 10-15 years ago. Granted stuff like driving dynamics might really sell cars in Europe, but in the US nobody associates Cadillac with sport sedans, and people really don't want cars that ride that stiff in this country. BMW softened up the ride and slopplied up the handling of their cars and started building 7 different SUV/not quite a wagon variants, sales have never been better.
As for Cadillac's size strategy, I don't know what to tell you, I think they somewhat concede that they can't go head to head with the German flagships. Hence maybe trying to come up with some "white space" in which to launch something. In between 5 and 7 Series with CT6. I feel like this strategy worked with the previous CTS, which was a size straddle between a 3 and a 5 series, with pricing more like 3 Series.
In the trucks it's what Nissan was trying to do with the new Titan XD (HD capabilities with Light Duty comfort/drivability). Problems were that the American light duties are almost as capable, or sometimes more capable and better driving than the Titan XD.
01-11-18, 10:34 AM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
Been carping on this forever, Cadillac needs some corporate LS series V8 love at affordable prices. These are the best engines GM makes, they should be an option in every Cadillac, even mid-level, reasonably priced trims of the ATS, CTS, CT6, and XT5. I know people think XT5, transverse engine, FWD car based, LS V8 won't fit/work. GM did LS V8 engine variants of the mid 2000's Pontiac Grand Prix, Chevy Impala and Monte Carlo.
Right now if you want some LS V8 in your Cadillac, you have two choices, a huge $90,000 Escalade, or a completely ridiculous to most people 650hp 4 door Corvette Z06 called the CTS-V, which is also $90,000. And price those V8 ATS and CTS cars in that sweet spot of the $45-55k range with no options. They don't have to be total monsters, but a 400hp V8 for the same price as your competitor's 4 or 6 cylinder, well there is your real market differentiation, something to get people talking about Cadillac.
Right now if you want some LS V8 in your Cadillac, you have two choices, a huge $90,000 Escalade, or a completely ridiculous to most people 650hp 4 door Corvette Z06 called the CTS-V, which is also $90,000. And price those V8 ATS and CTS cars in that sweet spot of the $45-55k range with no options. They don't have to be total monsters, but a 400hp V8 for the same price as your competitor's 4 or 6 cylinder, well there is your real market differentiation, something to get people talking about Cadillac.
01-11-18, 12:25 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
As most of you here already know, I liked Buicks ever since I was a teen....and Cadillacs before that LOL. Problem is.....along with the other GM divisions, the quality tanked, starting with the full-size 1971 models and 1973 for mid-sizers, and stayed in the tank for decades, with the exception of the reliable 90s-vintage Century and Regal.....and, on the Century and Regal, the interiors were junk, as wth the larger LeSabre. The 2012 Verano, a re-badged Opel, was the first Buick in 40 years that I thought was (one again) worth buying.
Did you actually own a Roadmaster? The LT1 version you mention, of course, had a Corvette engine in it. I test-drove a standard-spec Roadmaster, and, while I liked the ride, I found it plowed too much and had too much body roll in corners for even my conservative tastes.....and that's saying something LOL.
Did you actually own a Roadmaster? The LT1 version you mention, of course, had a Corvette engine in it. I test-drove a standard-spec Roadmaster, and, while I liked the ride, I found it plowed too much and had too much body roll in corners for even my conservative tastes.....and that's saying something LOL.
No, never owned a Roadmaster. I test drove a Buick Estate Wagon that was really, really, old, when I was 19, and my friend said I have no idea why you would want this? GM represents something in my mind, an era maybe that I was never part of. But I don't think that their products live up to what I want them to....there is no doubt in my mind people do love Caddy and Corvette. Will these be around 15 yrs. from now? I think the products need to be worthy of continued patronage...