spuds

Disagree,that is not what happened.They put a battery in the EV1 that would do an honest 130 miles,going fast,up and down mountains and the oil companies FREAKED! They got a hold of a few legislators and their puppets pulled the EV mandate ASAP,and the EV1 and the large pack NiMh battery were history,finito,GONE! That NiMH battery hasnt been in a vehicle since.

This time its different and its pretty much a world wide mandate,not just one state.They want us out of cars,and the EV is how they are doing it.Your choice is simple,drive one or take the bus or walk.IMO.

oldcajun

The Nickel Metal Hydride battery was no great breakthrough. It has much lower energy density than the Lithium Ion batteries now being used. Prius has used NiMh batteries for years. The Chevy Bolt is much more advanced than the EV1 and still doesn't sell very well. The story about the oil companies killing off advances is as old as the Fish carb which would give 100 mpg. False then and false now.

ragingf80

EV sales are stronger in CA than they were before and the results are clear on the roads in the big cities where EVs are more common and more practical.

CA state government will mandate it again, and while they might have to rescind again, the fact of the matter is that each attempt will only push us closer and closer to the point where EVs will be the dominant vehicle in CA and hopefully the world simply because it has a universal adapter to energy sources. Whatever is in the grid, the EV will take. That means coal, nuclear, solar, hydro, some future tech we don't know yet, whatever it will be that we can convert to energy to put into the grid will charge our EVs in the future unlike ICE vehicles which only have ONE source of energy... a source that is finite. It's only a matter of time.

So I take each failure as one more step towards success. Try and try again.

mmarshall

In the U.S., EVs will be dominant only if and when the general public accepts them. If the government gets too Gung-Ho in trying to force them prematurely, those representatives will find themselves voted out of office.

spuds

Almost all the auto makers are investing billions in the switch to EV,they wouldnt do that if they didnt have to.In todays world the govs couldnt give a hoot if they destroy an automaker.No infrastructure?They dont care.No range? They dont care.They want you in public transport,period.They just dont care.You dont like it,tough! BTW,it isnt just politicians setting these standards either,its UNELECTED bureaucrats wielding legislative power,unchecked.Cant vote em out.So who owns them controls the narrative.Follow the money,its in the climate change arena.Big time.

The automaker money is squat compared to the climate controlling money.With CO2 being declared a pollutant world wide,there is no way any ICE can make it on that standard alone,and the Climate control crowd has the control right now.Their 'science' has to be taken as Gods word itself.Thats todays reality.

For average users the new car v8 is history,The 6's are next.Look at the ridiculous push to make high stressed turbocharged 4's,thats todays ICE reality to meet the standards.This is all being driven on a world wide level to meet pollution/mileage standards.The only thing that meets pollution standards and mileage standards will soon be the EV.

Look at the congestion and pollution taxes in cities popping up all over the world,ICE wont fit into that.Only EV or some other so called non polluting tech will.

The climate change people own it now,thats a reality.Its as you are saying,follow the money.The money is in climate change.Auto makers...PFFFFT! They are nothing.And politically,its all about 'owning' the millennial and he couldnt really give a darn about cars or not,That car love dynamic is also history,they care about 'climate change' doncha know (as a group)

'Climate change' is trumping cars.Its trumping our entire way of life.Todays world is the futures 'buggy whip,clippership' world.This current way of life is fading really fast.The petroleum age is shifting to the electric age.We boomers,and soon gen x'ers,are dinosaurs.

spuds

The LARGEPACK NiMH is,and was,a game changer.There is ZERO large pack NiMH in use now.The Ovonics patent,that WE THE PEOPLE as taxpayers paid to develop went to the oil company and went on the shelf and was NEVER seen again.NEVER seen again,They refuse to allow its use.Ask Toyota about that,it stopped their EV in its tracks.Im talking EV,not low range hybrids like a prius,

I like EV's,but dont like them shoved down our throats.When they compete,on their own,and they will,Im all for it.Before that,they,along with self driving pods,will be the reality forced upon us.

Those who say "They cant do that",hogwash.I never thought 'they' could ignore the Constitution either,but thats a reality now.

spuds

Bottom line is,time will tell,and we will see who is right .I can remember a few years back....they are too heavy.Then the batteries dont last.They are too slow.Range is abysmal.They are too expensive.

And all that is now ancient history.Tech is advancing at lightspeed now regarding the future electric world. The cat is out of the bag on renewables and electric cars and electric economy.We have seen it,its here NOW and its only increasing every single day,and the Genie just isnt going back in the lamp.

Just look at the recent past its crystal clear what the future is.Like it or not,and our OPINIONS just dont matter,its bigger than us.

Peace out...

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I was curious about the NiMh you mentioned. Pulled from wiki

An interior picture of the GM EV1 for giggles.

spuds

The tech on the EV1 was so far advanced,a lot of it wound up in later GM cars.If GM would take their future tech and get it into current models nothing could match them IMO.

Aron9000

Man that GM EV1 display looks a lot like the Gen 2 Prius display, aka the hybrid that finally caught on to the mainstream.

Also that ***** looking shifter looks a lot like automatic gear shifts on the gen 1 and gen 2 Mitsubishi eclipse and the 90's 1st gen Lexus SC/Toyota Soarer.

Toys4RJill

mmarshall

The argument that spuds is making, though (I don't totally agree with it, and I would assume you don't either), is that governments, particularly unelected bureaucrats, will force EVs to succeed, even if the public resists them. Yet, government's actions seem to be sending mixed-signals. The IRS, for instance, still has tax credits for pure-electrics and plug-in-hybrids, but some state and local jurisdictions are actually taking away some of the hybrid credits and privileges that they one had, like priority use of freeway express-lanes.

LeX2K

Can you produce your own petrol? No. Can you generate your own electricity? Yes. Given the trending costs of storage and solar among other things I'd put money on your prediction being wrong.

mmarshall

Actually, for diesel engines, you can, in fact, (easily) produce your own bio-diesel fuel from the oil you cook foods with, though some states have outlawed the practice because it evades the taxes on motor-fuels. And new car diesels, of course, though not completely gone, are not widely available in the U.S., ever since VW and Audi dropped them after the scandal.

Solar-generation, though, runs into the problems of clouds, night, and increasing shade from nearby growing trees. Perhaps the best way to produce it is to use it sparingly, and have good storage-batteries for when the sun is not available.

riredale

It looks to me like the EV movement was driven by two factors, (1) the CO2 scare, and (2) the "peak oil" scare.

Although many folks have adopted the CO2/global warming meme as a religion (and thus not subject to further intellectual debate), many others think Gore's dire predictions are grossly overblown.

As for peak oil, I just read a great article about Texas, Houston, and oil in, of all places, the New Yorker (January 1 2018). I mention the source because the New Yorker is not exactly middle-of-the-road yet the article was pretty even-handed. It mentioned gigantic new discoveries of oil and natural gas and the US is transitioning from net importer to exporter of cheap fuels. My point is that if gasoline were $10 a gallon and trending upwards then EVs would infiltrate quickly. But it looks instead like gas will be ~$3 a gallon for many years to come (higher in California, natch). Yes, there's a cost savings filling up with kilowatts, but it's not a big one, and I don't want to plug in my car every night as well as worry about range and lengthy refill delays.

Interesting times.