Mistake aiming at millennials?
02-07-18, 09:48 AM
#151
Lexus Fanatic
Lexus has already alienated younger buyers (the ones that actually purchase luxury cars). We're approaching what, 13 or 14 years on the current 2GR-FSE powertrain with literally zero changes? When it came out, it was an industry leading engine. Now it's outperformed by Kia (and all other peers). Do you remember where Kia was 12 years ago? Take the new 2.0T Lexus has; it's already in last place in power and torque among Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Ford, GM, Honda, should I keep going?
Lexus's navigation system was an industry leader in 2005. Again, where are they now? Low resolution screens compared to peers. One of the worst user interfaces with the touch pad and mouse controller. Lack of adoption of industry-standard Apply Carplay and Android Auto. Did you know that if you don't pay Lexus $250+ a year for Enform, they disable the remote start on your key fob (that has *nothing* to do with Enform?!?)
Mmarshall, Lexus doesn't need to change everything into a sport-oriented thing. It only needs to do so for *specific trim levels* 3 cars; the IS, the GS, and the RC. We all know the problems with the RC; what about the IS? Why is there no IS-F? What Lexus does someone who wants power and handling purchase? As an example, the W205 C300 is not a sporty car. The B9 A4 is not a sporty car. The C43 is tied with the S4 for class-leading. Same model, totally different behavior.
Lexus reliability isn't the advantage it was, anymore. My 2013 QX60, 2015 QX60, 2012 S4, and 2016 C63S have all been just as reliable as my 2006 IS250 and 2007 IS350. This isn't something they can coast on anymore.
In short, as a former IS350 owner and Lexus fan, I've been disappointed with every decision they've made regarding their product offerings for 10 years, likely for the same reasons as most here. I don't want every Lexus to be a sports-car, I want Lexus to keep their direction as it was and make an actual sporty car like a new IS-F.
Lexus's navigation system was an industry leader in 2005. Again, where are they now? Low resolution screens compared to peers. One of the worst user interfaces with the touch pad and mouse controller. Lack of adoption of industry-standard Apply Carplay and Android Auto. Did you know that if you don't pay Lexus $250+ a year for Enform, they disable the remote start on your key fob (that has *nothing* to do with Enform?!?)
Mmarshall, Lexus doesn't need to change everything into a sport-oriented thing. It only needs to do so for *specific trim levels* 3 cars; the IS, the GS, and the RC. We all know the problems with the RC; what about the IS? Why is there no IS-F? What Lexus does someone who wants power and handling purchase? As an example, the W205 C300 is not a sporty car. The B9 A4 is not a sporty car. The C43 is tied with the S4 for class-leading. Same model, totally different behavior.
Lexus reliability isn't the advantage it was, anymore. My 2013 QX60, 2015 QX60, 2012 S4, and 2016 C63S have all been just as reliable as my 2006 IS250 and 2007 IS350. This isn't something they can coast on anymore.
In short, as a former IS350 owner and Lexus fan, I've been disappointed with every decision they've made regarding their product offerings for 10 years, likely for the same reasons as most here. I don't want every Lexus to be a sports-car, I want Lexus to keep their direction as it was and make an actual sporty car like a new IS-F.
How about GM? They have motors that were used from 2009-2017 basically unchanged, and then into a new generation of the vehicle, for 2018? How about the new Camry? Motors need to evolve imho, and need R&D to do so. For Lexus to come out with a turbo V6, must have taken some R&D, just that it wasn't done to please the buyers, likely more for cafe....
02-07-18, 09:54 AM
#152
Lexus Fanatic
02-07-18, 09:57 AM
#153
Lexus Fanatic
http://www.mitsubishi-engine.com/rev/s/turbocharger
02-07-18, 10:00 AM
#154
Lexus Fanatic
Mitsubishi has made their own turbochargers for years. In fact, some automakers used to buy them for their own engines.
http://www.mitsubishi-engine.com/rev/s/turbocharger
http://www.mitsubishi-engine.com/rev/s/turbocharger
02-07-18, 10:09 AM
#155
Lexus Fanatic
Mitsubishi has made their own turbochargers for years. In fact, some automakers used to buy them for their own engines.
http://www.mitsubishi-engine.com/rev/s/turbocharger
http://www.mitsubishi-engine.com/rev/s/turbocharger
02-07-18, 11:03 AM
#156
Racer
Nice read.Enjoying the comments.
02-07-18, 06:53 PM
#157
I read what you are saying and you have some fair opinions on the subject. What era does your QX60s source their engines from? And in 2016 were you able to access Apple Car Play or Android auto on the 16 QX?
was not aware that Lexus charges you $250 and your remote start disables. Yes the Lexus engines have been languishing for a while, but Lexus Ls400 kept its 4.0 for a long while, so did the LX470. Can’t rememer the 90s Camrys did. I think the Lexus RX was a 3.3 for 10* years. I do agree, it is a very General Motors thing to do.
One thing that can't be faked, imho, is torque. It's physics. How many iterations of the very same motor, can have say 290 HP, to 330 HP, yet the very same 260-270 lbs. ft. of torque? The HP is for marketing purposes....
How about GM? They have motors that were used from 2009-2017 basically unchanged, and then into a new generation of the vehicle, for 2018? How about the new Camry? Motors need to evolve imho, and need R&D to do so. For Lexus to come out with a turbo V6, must have taken some R&D, just that it wasn't done to please the buyers, likely more for cafe....
How about GM? They have motors that were used from 2009-2017 basically unchanged, and then into a new generation of the vehicle, for 2018? How about the new Camry? Motors need to evolve imho, and need R&D to do so. For Lexus to come out with a turbo V6, must have taken some R&D, just that it wasn't done to please the buyers, likely more for cafe....
Last edited by Infra; 02-07-18 at 06:58 PM.
02-07-18, 07:57 PM
#158
Lead Lap
Lexus is confused and very well should be with the responses on this forum if we take the forum as a means to gain insight on their core demographic.
their demo clamors about reliability, something they (including myself) hate to loose over Germans who make ****boxes that need constant care.
How would Lexus or any carmaker make a reliable high performance vehicle when reliability and performance really have not worked together ever.
Their demo clamors for performance handling....their demo clamors for being more then a snooze inducing appliance
They make a car that performs well....No one buys it over a similar but poorly handling 5 series
So Lexus basically raised the flag, and was like you know what will work, if we disguise our normal boring yet reliable engines with some fance bodywork...And you know what that thing has worked wonders for the Lexus's bottom end so who cares. And to be honest, if you look at all the forums, you have many posts about how the predator grill is terrible, and Lexus is inferior to other automakers in performance but they`re still moving units to both millennial and older buyer since your retaining the thing that made the brand, but also appealing to new younger buyers with the design.
their demo clamors about reliability, something they (including myself) hate to loose over Germans who make ****boxes that need constant care.
How would Lexus or any carmaker make a reliable high performance vehicle when reliability and performance really have not worked together ever.
Their demo clamors for performance handling....their demo clamors for being more then a snooze inducing appliance
They make a car that performs well....No one buys it over a similar but poorly handling 5 series
So Lexus basically raised the flag, and was like you know what will work, if we disguise our normal boring yet reliable engines with some fance bodywork...And you know what that thing has worked wonders for the Lexus's bottom end so who cares. And to be honest, if you look at all the forums, you have many posts about how the predator grill is terrible, and Lexus is inferior to other automakers in performance but they`re still moving units to both millennial and older buyer since your retaining the thing that made the brand, but also appealing to new younger buyers with the design.
02-08-18, 07:09 AM
#159
drives cars
I'm not sure these updates are enough to justify using it in yet another generation of vehicles. It still doesn't have the fuel economy numbers that would be needed.
02-08-18, 07:24 AM
#160
Lexus Fanatic
02-08-18, 09:07 AM
#161
Lexus Champion
Well, it did in fact get updated, and has a new engine code. It wasn't just VVT either - it has a higher redline (6800 versus 6600) and can run on the Atkinson cycle.
I'm not sure these updates are enough to justify using it in yet another generation of vehicles. It still doesn't have the fuel economy numbers that would be needed.
I'm not sure these updates are enough to justify using it in yet another generation of vehicles. It still doesn't have the fuel economy numbers that would be needed.
No other automakers offer this cycle switch. Any engine that offers these multi-function modes -- like adding a turbocharger -- requires some fine-tuning before the automaker gets the right balance between efficiency and power. Not all automakers, for example, have gotten the balance right with turbochargers.
02-08-18, 02:53 PM
#162
drives cars
These engines are new; only the aluminum engine block remains from the old, original GR engines but all moving bits, like the valvetrain, is new. They run on an on-demand high-efficiency Atkinson cycle or high-power Otto cycle, depending on load.
No other automakers offer this cycle switch. Any engine that offers these multi-function modes -- like adding a turbocharger -- requires some fine-tuning before the automaker gets the right balance between efficiency and power. Not all automakers, for example, have gotten the balance right with turbochargers.
No other automakers offer this cycle switch. Any engine that offers these multi-function modes -- like adding a turbocharger -- requires some fine-tuning before the automaker gets the right balance between efficiency and power. Not all automakers, for example, have gotten the balance right with turbochargers.
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