Mistake aiming at millennials?
02-03-18, 08:33 AM
#121
Lexus Fanatic
I will admit two things....having a 4 y.o., how much can I know about being a parent and kids' needs when they are 16, and two, it is far more competitive today, than when I was in HS. I mean when I was in HS, the best college in the nation accepted 19%. Today, around 6%.
It almost seems like parents want to be on the kids' good side, and this is part of it. Like there is a "it's so hard to be a teenager today" mentality. It is much more competitive, there is no doubt, with kids playing soccer at 3, SAT tutoring for $400/hour, etc. (lol my public school geared us for the SATs and I took it once, there were kids who got perfect scores coming out of our school [this dude russ is sure he did not miss anything yet got a 780])....who knows...again a former colleague who had young kids said no car until they change oil, change a tire, and drive a stick. Where his wife said son turns 16, Mustang GT. And the son was younger than daughter. Colleague said not gonna happen, but probably will since wife wears the pants...
It almost seems like parents want to be on the kids' good side, and this is part of it. Like there is a "it's so hard to be a teenager today" mentality. It is much more competitive, there is no doubt, with kids playing soccer at 3, SAT tutoring for $400/hour, etc. (lol my public school geared us for the SATs and I took it once, there were kids who got perfect scores coming out of our school [this dude russ is sure he did not miss anything yet got a 780])....who knows...again a former colleague who had young kids said no car until they change oil, change a tire, and drive a stick. Where his wife said son turns 16, Mustang GT. And the son was younger than daughter. Colleague said not gonna happen, but probably will since wife wears the pants...
Kids and high-performance cars often don't mix well. Back when the last-generation Pontiac GTO was still in production (2004-2008), a young kid cracked one up drag-racing on a two-lane road near my house....his mom had bought it for him, brand-new, just a week before. The road had a sharp curve, and he lost it and wrapped it around a roadside tree.....killing him and totalling the car. And if I had a dollar for every kid or young adult I've seen hurt or killed in high-performance Mustangs one the years, I could probably buy one myself LOL.
02-03-18, 09:36 AM
#122
Lexus Fanatic
Just my observation as many colleagues at work have kids 10-18. Many kids get new cars at about 16-17, or, they take over their parents' 2-5 y,o. car at 16-17. I have no idea whatsoever where this comes from, and nobody has been able to explain it to me.
I have a 4 y.o. and I have no plans on him getting a car at 16, from me, from his grandparents, or from his own savings. But I admit, it's so prevalent, I'm the outlier. All I can say is kids and parents seem to imply that a car is a necessity, for a 16 y.o., it's not optional.
p.s. I have to chime in another observation. My wife has a 22 y.o. cousin, who did well. His first job was almost 6 figures out of college (undergrad, grad will be over). But the way he acts, to his mom, I see the total manipulation. He basically got his mom to get him a 2 wk trip to Europe so he could relax before starting the job. In my day, I'd call him a *****. Sorry wifey!
I have a 4 y.o. and I have no plans on him getting a car at 16, from me, from his grandparents, or from his own savings. But I admit, it's so prevalent, I'm the outlier. All I can say is kids and parents seem to imply that a car is a necessity, for a 16 y.o., it's not optional.
p.s. I have to chime in another observation. My wife has a 22 y.o. cousin, who did well. His first job was almost 6 figures out of college (undergrad, grad will be over). But the way he acts, to his mom, I see the total manipulation. He basically got his mom to get him a 2 wk trip to Europe so he could relax before starting the job. In my day, I'd call him a *****. Sorry wifey!
02-03-18, 09:53 AM
#123
Lexus Fanatic
It seems to be a norm, to give kids a brand new, or perhaps a 2-5 y.o. hand me down, at 16-17. This was not the norm when I was in HS. If I had to sum up what I suspect is going on, is the parents' desire to please/retain the attention of their kids. But since nobody will say, I can only surmise. But also to see kids with 4K tv's, games, the latest iPhone or Galaxy, rooms bigger than a master bedroom of a 2500 sq ft home, they have it good!
02-03-18, 09:58 AM
#124
Today, thanks to medical advances, women are no longer housewives with eight, or even four children.
Instead, women have a career to provide a double income, yet only 1.8 kids to feed.
Furthermore, because of over-population through immigration, land values increase.
As trades like builders become less popular careers, the cost of building further increases too.
On the other hand, motor vehicles are cheaper than ever.
In particular, clothing & electronics is made in China & at an all time low in price - albeit at the heavy cost of the Chinese worker tolling from 7 am to 11 pm for only $2 a day etc!
Thus, with double the income, but only 1.8 children to feed, today's children are spoiled with private education & orthodontic treatment.
While clothing, cars & electronics are cheaper, only property is actually more expensive.
Today, kids spend so much time on the iPhone/iPad, that the local school teacher says that they can't even catch a ball!
PS
Jill may have a very valid point.
Pres Akio may not be targeting Millennials after all!
Pres Akio may simply be making more exciting cars.
However he must remember that the middle age group with the money to buy Lexus doesn't want excessively radical styling nor an excessively firm ride, and this seems to be where Akio has a knee-jerk over-reaction, since the three Germans have the right combination of styling suspension settings, and they are controlling a large portion of the luxury market as IS, ES, GS & LS sales stall relative to the German competition.
Interestingly, out of those four Lexus sedans, it is the softer riding FWD-based ES that sells best - so much for this no more boring with more inspired styling & more inspired dynamics that Pres Akio wants....
.
Instead, women have a career to provide a double income, yet only 1.8 kids to feed.
Furthermore, because of over-population through immigration, land values increase.
As trades like builders become less popular careers, the cost of building further increases too.
On the other hand, motor vehicles are cheaper than ever.
In particular, clothing & electronics is made in China & at an all time low in price - albeit at the heavy cost of the Chinese worker tolling from 7 am to 11 pm for only $2 a day etc!
Thus, with double the income, but only 1.8 children to feed, today's children are spoiled with private education & orthodontic treatment.
While clothing, cars & electronics are cheaper, only property is actually more expensive.
Today, kids spend so much time on the iPhone/iPad, that the local school teacher says that they can't even catch a ball!
PS
Jill may have a very valid point.
Pres Akio may not be targeting Millennials after all!
Pres Akio may simply be making more exciting cars.
However he must remember that the middle age group with the money to buy Lexus doesn't want excessively radical styling nor an excessively firm ride, and this seems to be where Akio has a knee-jerk over-reaction, since the three Germans have the right combination of styling suspension settings, and they are controlling a large portion of the luxury market as IS, ES, GS & LS sales stall relative to the German competition.
Interestingly, out of those four Lexus sedans, it is the softer riding FWD-based ES that sells best - so much for this no more boring with more inspired styling & more inspired dynamics that Pres Akio wants....
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 02-03-18 at 02:45 PM.
02-03-18, 10:39 AM
#125
Lexus Fanatic
It seems to be a norm, to give kids a brand new, or perhaps a 2-5 y.o. hand me down, at 16-17. This was not the norm when I was in HS. If I had to sum up what I suspect is going on, is the parents' desire to please/retain the attention of their kids. But since nobody will say, I can only surmise. But also to see kids with 4K tv's, games, the latest iPhone or Galaxy, rooms bigger than a master bedroom of a 2500 sq ft home, they have it good!
So the moral of my story is that my parents were very kind and forward thinking. They knew it was extremely difficult to get ahead with big debt and ongoing life long payments.
Now, that is not to say it always works. One of my siblings has completely blown his advantage that was afforded. $50k in CC debts twice, and a mortgage on the same house through a bank that is now three times what my parents gave him to as what was given to me in concept. Two 84 months car payments on two cars. Sad part is that this Individual has a very successful job in Canada that is next to impossible to lose. 6 figures and an incredible pension.
My other siblings were also quite successful in taking the advantage my parents gave to them. But I seemed to benefit from it a little more. Even to this day, my parents will offer us a interest free loan if needed but there is one individual in the family that is not offered this option.
I think if a parent can give their child a advantage in life, they should do it. A hand me down car provides an opportunity that a lot of people don’t have. A new car even better.
I am not saying that people don’t become spoiled or that people shoud figure it out on their own, but sometimes a little bit of an advantage can really help.
I should note. My parents were not given any opportunity whatsoever from their parents, in fact they had a more obstacles to overcome than I ever did. They simply rolled the dice on a business way way back in the day and got extraordinary and incredibly lucky which went along with some pretty hard work as well.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 02-03-18 at 10:44 AM.
02-03-18, 01:27 PM
#126
Super Moderator
edit just thought of my boss. He makes a lot of money. But he just had one son graduate college, and a daughter start. He told me, after financial aid, his contribution is $23k/yr. That's like buying a used car every year, for 4 yrs. To be honest, nobody I know is saving monthly what the online calculators say, for college. It's easily near $1000/mo. from the hospital ride home through 22. .
Last edited by geko29; 02-03-18 at 01:32 PM.
02-03-18, 02:05 PM
#127
Lexus Fanatic
This is definitely overstated. $1000/mo for 22 years with a 5% annual return is $480k, which is way more than enough for full pay at pretty much any school. Even with no return at all it's $264k, which is enough for four years at an Ivy without any other source of funding--Harvard, for example, is $63k/year for tuition, room and board, and all fees, while Yale is $66k. The market historically averages 10%/year, so this is a VERY conservative calculation. If you got the typical 7% nominal return (accounting for inflation), you'd come up with $625k in today's dollars, enough to put two kids through Ivy League schools, even if they both took 5 years.
02-03-18, 02:17 PM
#128
Lexus Fanatic
Kids and high-performance cars often don't mix well. Back when the last-generation Pontiac GTO was still in production (2004-2008), a young kid cracked one up drag-racing on a two-lane road near my house....his mom had bought it for him, brand-new, just a week before. The road had a sharp curve, and he lost it and wrapped it around a roadside tree.....killing him and totalling the car. And if I had a dollar for every kid or young adult I've seen hurt or killed in high-performance Mustangs one the years, I could probably buy one myself LOL.
In my time, there was a serious wreck with a mid sized MB near our house, and my mom always told me, don't ever drive that fast or that's what could happen. As shown by the above, I did not listen.
My 335i is capable of 155, and the fastest I have driven was 125 indicated, likely 120. That was ONE TIME only. I had gotten onto 476 following a Ferrari California, and didn't even realize I was doing that speed, car doesn't show it. At my age I don't need increased insurance or fines or loss of license...
02-03-18, 02:23 PM
#129
Racer
02-03-18, 03:14 PM
#131
Super Moderator
That is a misconception....Ivy League colleges and other elites, are 10% of income, up to approx. $250k. Your family income is $250k, you will be responsible for $25k per year. This is why Ivys are cheaper than many state schools. In my day, there was this shrouded mystery, as to whether admissions was truly need blind. They stated that admissions, and financial aid, were separate functions (haha to this day my mom doesn't believe it and thinks I had to go where I did because of need), and nary would the two meet. It is gratifying to know it was the truth. If your son/daughter gets into an elite college, you can thank them financially for what they've done....it's the mediocre schools with $70k price tags today, not 2032 like for my son, that wreck a parents' finances as their financial aid isn't great.
02-03-18, 04:38 PM
#132
Racer
As for the 10% or 5% return on investments,hogwash.The Dow Jones is a fraud. 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics'
Im seeing 0.15 % on my savings acct (for what,the last ten years??),and 1.5% is the max on CD's today.I remember 15% CD's. And dont forget taxes on these great stock market returns,which is more nonsense. Not to mention REAL inflation that in the real world is outpacing these investments.And decimating your savings.
Finally,hardly anybody is truly college material.Now or then.Now everybody with a pulse and a predatory student loan can defer growing up and get a useless degree.Most would be far better served learning a trade.
Those in my family that didnt go to higher education earn as much as,or more,than those who did.Only a few degree's actually pay off big.Dr,engineers for example and you better be darn smart,not the average Joe in college today.Who should be learning plumbing,electrical or HVAC that still pays a good wage and likely wont be displaced by AI and robots any time soon.
Last edited by spuds; 02-03-18 at 04:44 PM.
02-03-18, 04:52 PM
#133
Lexus Fanatic
That double income is needed to match a single income of days past.
As for the 10% or 5% return on investments,hogwash.The Dow Jones is a fraud. 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics'
Im seeing 0.15 % on my savings acct (for what,the last ten years??),and 1.5% is the max on CD's today.I remember 15% CD's. And dont forget taxes on these great stock market returns,which is more nonsense. Not to mention REAL inflation that in the real world is outpacing these investments.And decimating your savings.
Finally,hardly anybody is truly college material.Now or then.Now everybody with a pulse and a predatory student loan can defer growing up and get a useless degree.Most would be far better served learning a trade.
Those in my family that didnt go to higher education earn as much as,or more,than those who did.Only a few degree's actually pay off big.Dr,engineers for example and you better be darn smart,not the average Joe in college today.Who should be learning plumbing,electrical or HVAC that still pays a good wage and likely wont be displaced by AI and robots any time soon.
As for the 10% or 5% return on investments,hogwash.The Dow Jones is a fraud. 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics'
Im seeing 0.15 % on my savings acct (for what,the last ten years??),and 1.5% is the max on CD's today.I remember 15% CD's. And dont forget taxes on these great stock market returns,which is more nonsense. Not to mention REAL inflation that in the real world is outpacing these investments.And decimating your savings.
Finally,hardly anybody is truly college material.Now or then.Now everybody with a pulse and a predatory student loan can defer growing up and get a useless degree.Most would be far better served learning a trade.
Those in my family that didnt go to higher education earn as much as,or more,than those who did.Only a few degree's actually pay off big.Dr,engineers for example and you better be darn smart,not the average Joe in college today.Who should be learning plumbing,electrical or HVAC that still pays a good wage and likely wont be displaced by AI and robots any time soon.
I agree with what you said about degrees and pay. I also think a lot of luck plays a role in landing a job, especially a great job. People who hire you and train you go a long way in determining success.
02-03-18, 04:54 PM
#134
Racer
Which is why Im at this forum.Looks like Im going to be a future LS400 owner and Im doing deep research so when the time is right I can get one,know what they need,what to look for and have a nice older vehicle.Education,the one you can use,sure is valuable.I like to say I learned something new every day.Now if I could just remember what it was,LOL,thats the challenge.
Last edited by spuds; 02-03-18 at 04:59 PM.
02-03-18, 04:58 PM
#135
Lexus Champion
An Autoweek article about this topic. It cites BMW's strategy but it really applies to any manufacturer these days. One of the things it points out is how seamless the tech on a car has to be with digital. Those carmakers that started early in integrating things like smartphone/apps etc. are looked on more favorably by potential millenliall customers.
Source
In the scramble to stay relevant to digital natives more interested in smartphones than cars, automakers must be prepared to take more risks when positioning their brands and not shy away from edgy subject matter, a top BMW executive said.Speaking to attendees at the Automotive News Europe Congress here, Hildegard Wortmann said it was not technological developments or regulatory issues that are pushing the current transformation in the industry, but changing customer tastes. Therefore, brands had little choice but to change with them.Millennials in key markets such as China are less receptive to traditional channels for distributing content as their consumption habits shift primarily to online platforms where advertising has less sway. This risks commoditizing even strong brands and is forcing companies such as BMW to constantly reinvent their organizations to maintain a competitive position.
"They don't care anymore about a brand telling you how to live, what to do, how to behave, where to shop -- their world is completely seamless between virtual and real and with a clear global focus, but still they themselves have a tiny world of brands, which they think are relevant for their life," said Wortmann, who is senior vice president brand at BMW. "They want brands that behave like human beings."Since advertising no longer has the same reach, marketing executives need to be more willing to stretch the limits and be prepared to go directly to the customers and take a stance on key social issues such as gay and lesbian rights. Wortmann referred to it as providing "thought leadership."She conceded that risks were inevitable when venturing into all new areas, such as when her team placed a specially designed BMW i8 at the Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival in California. "A few years ago, I would have probably gotten fired for going to a festival with sex, drugs, rock and roll," Wortmann said. Taking the risk brought rewards as the social media impact was immediate with people posting pictures of themselves in front of the BMW i8. "We're using their community in order to boost our message," Wortmann said.
The BMW executive also said the automaker has overhauled its marketing department completely, replacing functional responsibilities for areas such as TV and print that had a "launch and forget" mentality moving from one product campaign to another. Instead she created a content studio at BMW's headquarters in Munich that continuously mines information and reacts instantly."Any social media, any news on any channels that you can imagine -- we see that live in our control center, our little war room, in real time," she said.This new way of interacting has forced Wortmann to change the makeup of her team. "At the moment, I am not recruiting marketing experts. I am recruiting data analysts, who are capable of not just doing the data crunching, but really interpreting the right things out of that, which we need in order to take the right direction for the brand."