bagwell

http://europe.autonews.com/article/2...autonews-blast

GENEVA -- Toyota will stop selling diesel-powered passenger cars in Europe by the end of this year, Toyota Europe CEO Johan van Zyl said.

Diesels account for less than 10 percent of the automaker's car sales in Europe, van Zyl said at an event on the eve of the auto show here.

Toyota, however, will continue to offer diesels versions of its Land Cruiser large SUV, Hilux pickup truck and Proace light commercial vehicles because some customers want the higher torque offered by diesels, the automaker said in a release.

Toyota has been moving to phase diesels out of its European lineup for years while aggressively pushing its gasoline-electric hybrids, which now account for more than 40 percent of the company's sales in the region.

In 2016, Toyota introduced its C-HR compact SUV without a diesel variant. Hybrids now account for nearly 80 percent of the C-HR's European sales.

In January, Toyota's Italian arm said it would no longer offer diesel versions of the new cars it sells in the country.

The latest move against the diesel was Toyota's decision not to offer the powertrain in its new third-generation Auris compact, which debuted in Geneva Tuesday.

The Auris will be offered with a choice of two hybrids as well as a gasoline engine. The top-performing hybrid Auris will have a 2.0-liter engine that makes 180 hp. The less powerful hybrid has a 1.8-liter, 122 hp powertrain.

Toyota is counting on its expanding hybrid lineup to help it comply with tougher European emissions rules. By 2021, the fleet CO2 average for automakers in Europe drops 95 grams per kilometer from 118.1g/km now. Companies that don't reach the target will be hit with fines.

In 2016, Toyota's fleet average was 105.4g/km. The 2017 result was 101.2g/km, according to market researcher JATO Dynamics.

"The more hybrids we sell, the better our chances" of reaching the target, Toyota Europe Chairman Didier Leroy said.

The executive added that while automakers such as Volvo will rely heavily on 48-volt mild hybrids in the future, Toyota considers mild hybrids to be inferior to the full hybrids it offers.

"For us, mild hybrids wouldn't be a step forward," Leroy said. When asked about plug-in hybrids, Leroy was also skeptical because he said the requirement to recharge them is a disadvantage, and when they are not recharged their environmental benefit is nullified.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Not surprising. Hybrids make more sense right now.

Mr Bond

I drive a RAV4 Hybrid AWD right now and had a longer test drive with the new Volvo XC60 D4 ( diesel 190 hp) AWD and the fuel consumption in the Volvo could not match the RAV4, not even when cruising on highway or smaller roads at about 40-50 mph. I was really surprised about that.

The Volvo is of course much more modern and stylish in every way, but its only adds to the confusion. You would really expect the Volvo to destroy the RAV4 ( since the RAV4 feels15 years old in comparison) in terms of drivetrain, smoothness, performance and consumption- but it does not. A redesigned RAV4 please !

spwolf

Can you imagine how good new Rav4 will be when it comes out next year? Not only new hybrid is both thriftier and punchier, but it is going to be a much better handling/riding too.

What I find quite interesting is that for instance Volvo is mostly selling diesels and PR's about electrification, but I guess it should not be - in geneva, Audi A6 got out and it is mostly diesel too. Despite their attempts at PR, they are changing their ways slowly.

bagwell

Aron9000

Good for Toyota. Hybrids make a lot of sense in the lands of $6-7 a gallon gas. I was very skeptical of the technology when it really hit mainstream about 13-14 years ago in the gen II Prius, but Toyota has proven that the technology is just as long lasting, easy and affordable to service as any of their other gas powered cars. And on an economy model like the Prius, where customers hold onto them for well out of warranty, that is the Toyota difference, that you can depend on it to still be reliable and not to bankrupt you with repairs even though its 14 years old with a bunch of miles on it.

rogerh00

I agree that a proven hybrid system like Toyota has developed is a smart way to go. I tried to buy a NX Hybrid but they just weren't available at the time.

However, that said, I can expect the CPA's and mathematician's will be here soon explaining how it is a bad investment and you will never recover the premium price you pay over a gasoline powered vehicle.

MattyG

It isn't so much about an investment because most vehicles are depreciating assets from the day you drive one off the lot, it's the thousands extra you pay for the tech vs just simply paying the price for gasoline/diesel and the improvements that those engines have made over the years. It takes a long time to recoup a hybrid's premium and it often even requires state and federal subsidies to do it.

Aron9000

The payoff for the hybrid premium is a lot quicker in Europe where gas is $7 a gallon. Besides I don't really think there is much of a price premium for a Prius, a standard Prius is starts at 23k, a standard Camry starts at 23k, and you get more room in the Prius anyways.

MattyG

Yes, I was referring to North America. You can also buy a Yaris for $15K, a Corolla for $18K, Civic starts at $18K, Accord starts $23K.

geko29

Not even close. The Prius has 1" more front headroom and legroom than the Camry. But the Camry soundly trounces it in literally every other category, front and rear. Including five inches more legroom in the back seat. To put that into perspective, the Expedition, the largest SUV that Ford makes, has only three inches more rear legroom than the Escape, the smallest one they make. And the little Escape, in turn, has 3 inches more than the Prius.

The Prius is also a MUCH noisier drive on the highway. My dad, a notable miser, was all set to buy one (a new-at-the-time 2014) until they test drove it on the highway, at which point my mom declared that he could buy it if he wanted to, but that meant they were taking her Genesis everywhere. He wound up buying a 1 year old Mazda 3 for $13k, and she's more than happy to ride around in it for local trips.

spwolf

In Europe, it is not just about making money back at the pump... it goes like this:
- hybrid is interesting, high tech, novelty compared to petrol and diesel
- you get automatic (here $1.5-$3k surcharge on all cars, very few non luxury vehicles are sold as automatics)
- fuel economy is great
- it goes faster than petrol, especially in the city where we drive a lot
- used value will also be much better and will be easy to sell vs regular petrol where you might have to give it away since people dont want 30% higher consumption no matter what.

Now with this 2.0l, they get a perfect engine between Prius one and Rav4's. So you get something thats good for highway too. Basically vs high 2.0l petrol engine, it will be still faster, together with thriftier.

And usually you never get any money back when something is faster anyway.

Sulu

Funny how we do not discuss payback due to better fuel economy for diesels (which cost more than their gasoline counterparts), and yet, the first thing people talk about with hybrids is that you will not get payback unless you keep it forever or gas prices go up to outrageously-high levels.

Why the double standard?

To me, the Hybrid is just another powertrain option and happens to be the option I wanted and was willing to pay for. Yes, I am happy that I achieve the same low fuel consumption on my large ESh that I achieved on my compact Corolla, but that is not the only reason I bought it. I appreciate how the technology gives me a car with very clean exhaust emissions -- even zero emissions at times.

MattyG

And that's why consumers are willing to pay extra here in NA. Not because you wanted to get better fuel economy compared to a diesel, but because you had no diesel option available on that car due to stricter emissions standards. It's also one reason why Lexus doesn't sell well in its larger sedans in Europe due to the fact that... no diesel options.

Buying the diesel makes more sense in Europe due to the higher fuel prices. There is no premium attached to buying a diesel in Europe, that's the norm until you come to bans/phase out. In NA, there was/is a diesel premium, for cars. That was and is due to stricter emissions standards. Does Europe subsidize diesels like NA subsidizes hybrids?

Aron9000

I was thinking more in terms of cargo room, the Prius is a hatch that you can fold the rear seats down. In those terms, its a way more practical car than the Camry, you can haul a lot more crap/weirdly shaped crap in a Prius. Also if you haven't sat in the back seat of a Prius, it actually is pretty roomy. Not quite as much leg room as the Camry as you noted, but its not a penalty box and is certainly roomier than a Corolla.