Rust issues?
03-18-18, 01:24 PM
#16
The first thing I did when I got my southern LS430 and LX470 is tear apart every panel and shoot Wurth Body Wax into every nook and cranny and every cavity because even on Lexus's most expensive cars, they do not do it at the factory which is quite sad.
03-18-18, 01:41 PM
#17
Lexus Champion
Filling seams with rust prevention compounds does not mean the car was made better or has better rust prevention. You can spray compounds into any car, and you have to keep applying them if a car is sprayed from the factory it won't do much long term. As far as paint goes I don't have enough experience to say either way. I much prefer Fluid Film.
03-18-18, 02:31 PM
#18
Lead Lap
Well,
95% of the cars we do at our shop are German. Mainly BMW and Porsche but a good amount of Mercedes and Audi as well.
German cars most definitely have far better corrosion and rust protection than Japanese and American cars.
If you look at any new BMW you'll see tons of t of eCosmoline/body wax coming ouvery drain hole of every panel. Pop the hood and you will see the same corrosion protection between metal panels, in every seam, between pinch welds, etc. Again you do not get this in Japanese cars.
This is body panel protection. This is why you rarely see any German cars rusting even after 25+ years. I think the only German cars that rusted in recent times were the 2000-2007ish era Mercedes C,E,and S Class cars when there was very apparent cost cutting. I've seen quite a few with rotting door panels along the center body molding and other parts.
German cars also have better paint in general over Japanese cars. Germans do not have the same regulations and can use a much harder clearcoat that is more resistant to scratching and failing over time. Japanese cars, especially the newer ones, have softer paint due to their regulations so they swirl and scratch quicker.
Most Japanese cars also use thinner/cheaper e-coating on their undercarriage parts (subframes, control arms, sway bars, brackets, etc.) so they do not hold up to salt as well as the underbodies of German vehicles that use much better paint on the underside.
Aluminum is pretty exposed to corrosion no matter what make and model. I've seen brand new M3s and M4s (one of the most common cars we do) right off the truck with 5 miles corroded to hell (engine head/block, most of the suspension is all aluminum as well as most of the undercarriage). Most high end calipers are aluminum so they are also prone to corrosion. Brembo and other high end calipers usually come coated but Lexus and other oem aluminum calipers are not coated with anything so corrosion will set in after salt exposure which leads to seized calipers and other issues. No way around it.
In short, Lexus is NOT the leader in the best paint/corrosion protection. Nowhere close to it. However, uncoated aluminum will be subject to corrosion on any car.
95% of the cars we do at our shop are German. Mainly BMW and Porsche but a good amount of Mercedes and Audi as well.
German cars most definitely have far better corrosion and rust protection than Japanese and American cars.
If you look at any new BMW you'll see tons of t of eCosmoline/body wax coming ouvery drain hole of every panel. Pop the hood and you will see the same corrosion protection between metal panels, in every seam, between pinch welds, etc. Again you do not get this in Japanese cars.
This is body panel protection. This is why you rarely see any German cars rusting even after 25+ years. I think the only German cars that rusted in recent times were the 2000-2007ish era Mercedes C,E,and S Class cars when there was very apparent cost cutting. I've seen quite a few with rotting door panels along the center body molding and other parts.
German cars also have better paint in general over Japanese cars. Germans do not have the same regulations and can use a much harder clearcoat that is more resistant to scratching and failing over time. Japanese cars, especially the newer ones, have softer paint due to their regulations so they swirl and scratch quicker.
Most Japanese cars also use thinner/cheaper e-coating on their undercarriage parts (subframes, control arms, sway bars, brackets, etc.) so they do not hold up to salt as well as the underbodies of German vehicles that use much better paint on the underside.
Aluminum is pretty exposed to corrosion no matter what make and model. I've seen brand new M3s and M4s (one of the most common cars we do) right off the truck with 5 miles corroded to hell (engine head/block, most of the suspension is all aluminum as well as most of the undercarriage). Most high end calipers are aluminum so they are also prone to corrosion. Brembo and other high end calipers usually come coated but Lexus and other oem aluminum calipers are not coated with anything so corrosion will set in after salt exposure which leads to seized calipers and other issues. No way around it.
In short, Lexus is NOT the leader in the best paint/corrosion protection. Nowhere close to it. However, uncoated aluminum will be subject to corrosion on any car.
03-18-18, 02:46 PM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
I have found that if, after you drive on salted roads, you flush the underside of the car with a hose, in and out of the wheel wells, and in and out of the wheels and wheel-slots, and up underneath the bumpers, it can be at least fairly effective in delaying, if not totally preventing corrosion from salt. (that's one reason I don't care for lowered/slammed vehicles...it makes it more difficult or impossible). Also, if salt IS on the roads, try not to drive on them when they are wet...dry salt, or the white powder you often see, will do much less damage than wet salt or salt spray.
However, if your ES is parked outside regularly near the coast in SE Florida, you won't be getting any significant snow, salt is not used on the roads. and the sea-spray is in the air constantly. There's not a whole lot you can do, though flushes with the hose still won't hurt, as they get other contaminants of the car as well.
That is one reason why Naval and Marine aircraft, which are often based on ships or on airfields on the coast, get special anti-corrosion measures during construction (and on the ships) that other types of military aircraft, such as with the Air Force, that are primarily based inland, with only a few bases on the coast, usually don't need.
However, if your ES is parked outside regularly near the coast in SE Florida, you won't be getting any significant snow, salt is not used on the roads. and the sea-spray is in the air constantly. There's not a whole lot you can do, though flushes with the hose still won't hurt, as they get other contaminants of the car as well.
That is one reason why Naval and Marine aircraft, which are often based on ships or on airfields on the coast, get special anti-corrosion measures during construction (and on the ships) that other types of military aircraft, such as with the Air Force, that are primarily based inland, with only a few bases on the coast, usually don't need.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-18-18 at 02:51 PM.
03-18-18, 03:19 PM
#20
Filling seams with rust prevention compounds does not mean the car was made better or has better rust prevention. You can spray compounds into any car, and you have to keep applying them if a car is sprayed from the factory it won't do much long term. As far as paint goes I don't have enough experience to say either way. I much prefer Fluid Film.
03-18-18, 03:36 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
Fluid Film is a product that needs to be touched up on a regular basis as needed. Body wax does not. If you've ever worked with Cosmoline you would know that. It has a direct effect on panels NOT rotting from the inside. I've worked on many BMWs and Porsches from the 70-80s and they all have that stuff on every square inch of the car. Even the motors and trannies and the rear barrels of the wheels are covered on some cars from the factory. It is ridiculously hard to remove. You must soak the areas in solvent and even then it's a challenge to remove. That stuff is not going anwhere on its own. Fluid Film is an "always wet" product that is very durable but will rub off easily if you touch it or pressure wash it at close distance. Completely different than what's used on those body cavities.
Strange that with Japan being an island nation, where you are almost never that far from the coast, Japanese-designed vehicles don't have more advanced rust-proofing techniques. Rust used to be a real problem with them, decades ago, but they got at least got a hand on that by the late 1980s to around 1990. Even so, most vehicles today, including Japanese-designs, have rust-through warranties to 100,000 miles or more.
03-18-18, 05:06 PM
#22
Lexus Champion
Japanese cars from the 70's had rust issues because the steel was not purified properly. Oddly enough Mazda has suffered from the same problem recently.
03-18-18, 05:19 PM
#23
Strange that with Japan being an island nation, where you are almost never that far from the coast, Japanese-designed vehicles don't have more advanced rust-proofing techniques. Rust used to be a real problem with them, decades ago, but they got at least got a hand on that by the late 1980s to around 1990. Even so, most vehicles today, including Japanese-designs, have rust-through warranties to 100,000 miles or more.
Here's a thread I just found on it:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...corrosion.html
Further proof that Lexus does not do the greatest job of treating these cars like the Germans do. When I did my cars, they were all bone dry inside the panels with no evidence of any kind of coating or rust inhibitor product.
03-18-18, 05:28 PM
#24
I have a white M4 sitting at the shop right now and tomorrow morning I will take close up photos to show you just how much of this stuff is used on their cars. It's perfect that the car is white because it would be easy to take a pic of the cosmoline they shoot up every panel of the car.
I'll post the pics tomorrow. Show me one Lexus that has this kind of interior body protection against rust.
Lexus2000- to answer your question, yes you can spray ANY car yourself, but the difference here is, 99.9% of car owners will NOT do that in the US, only the really crazy ones will do it like myself. German vehicles already come with this treatment so the customer does not need to do anything. Hypothetically speaking, even if the steel used between German and Japanese vehicles is the same, the German car that is treated with the wax will not rust and the Japanese one will. Also it would be impossible to get the same coverage and hit every single panel on your car after all the panels are welded and covered. I was able to do my quarter panels by removing the tail lights and using the 360 degree extension wand, access the inner doors through the drain plugs and by removing the door cards, access the rocker panels by removing the jamb sills, do the trunk by removing the carpet cover,and the hood jamb through the various access holes. I can't access the pillar area of the car without drilling and some cars you cannot access the quarter panels as easy as it was to do on my cars. That is why places like Krown just take the easy way and drill a ton of holes and plug them after, something I would not want on my vehicle personally.
I'll post the pics tomorrow. Show me one Lexus that has this kind of interior body protection against rust.
Lexus2000- to answer your question, yes you can spray ANY car yourself, but the difference here is, 99.9% of car owners will NOT do that in the US, only the really crazy ones will do it like myself. German vehicles already come with this treatment so the customer does not need to do anything. Hypothetically speaking, even if the steel used between German and Japanese vehicles is the same, the German car that is treated with the wax will not rust and the Japanese one will. Also it would be impossible to get the same coverage and hit every single panel on your car after all the panels are welded and covered. I was able to do my quarter panels by removing the tail lights and using the 360 degree extension wand, access the inner doors through the drain plugs and by removing the door cards, access the rocker panels by removing the jamb sills, do the trunk by removing the carpet cover,and the hood jamb through the various access holes. I can't access the pillar area of the car without drilling and some cars you cannot access the quarter panels as easy as it was to do on my cars. That is why places like Krown just take the easy way and drill a ton of holes and plug them after, something I would not want on my vehicle personally.
03-18-18, 05:30 PM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
My brother is a service manager for Lexus and don't quote me on the exact year, but he said there was recently some kind of issue or possibly even recall on the 3IS quarter panels rotting out and Lexus replacing them completely for owners. I think he said it was on the 2014 models but it's been a minute since he mentioned it and I could be wrong about the year.
03-18-18, 05:33 PM
#26
It's a bad situation to be in either way. Replacing a quarter panel is by far the hardest panel to replace on the car. Then you have the issue of blending it at the top of the C pillar or repainting the entire pillar. Then you have the issue of paint mismatching and possibly needing to repaint the entire sides for a perfect match. Now you have a 2 year old car that is repainted 80% because the manufacturer screwed up. Would you be okay with that? I would not be.
03-18-18, 06:05 PM
#27
Lexus Champion
My brother is a service manager for Lexus and don't quote me on the exact year, but he said there was recently some kind of issue or possibly even recall on the 3IS quarter panels rotting out and Lexus replacing them completely for owners. I think he said it was on the 2014 models but it's been a minute since he mentioned it and I could be wrong about the year.
Here's a thread I just found on it:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...corrosion.html
Further proof that Lexus does not do the greatest job of treating these cars like the Germans do. When I did my cars, they were all bone dry inside the panels with no evidence of any kind of coating or rust inhibitor product.
Here's a thread I just found on it:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...corrosion.html
Further proof that Lexus does not do the greatest job of treating these cars like the Germans do. When I did my cars, they were all bone dry inside the panels with no evidence of any kind of coating or rust inhibitor product.
.
03-19-18, 09:00 AM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
Well,
95% of the cars we do at our shop are German. Mainly BMW and Porsche but a good amount of Mercedes and Audi as well.
German cars most definitely have far better corrosion and rust protection than Japanese and American cars.
If you look at any new BMW you'll see tons of Cosmoline/body wax coming out of every drain hole of every panel. Pop the hood and you will see the same corrosion protection between metal panels, in every seam, between pinch welds, etc. Again you do not get this in Japanese cars.
This is body panel protection. This is why you rarely see any German cars rusting even after 25+ years. I think the only German cars that rusted in recent times were the 2000-2007ish era Mercedes C,E,and S Class cars when there was very apparent cost cutting. I've seen quite a few with rotting door panels along the center body molding and other parts.
German cars also have better paint in general over Japanese cars. Germans do not have the same regulations and can use a much harder clearcoat that is more resistant to scratching and failing over time. Japanese cars, especially the newer ones, have softer paint due to their regulations so they swirl and scratch quicker.
Most Japanese cars also use thinner/cheaper e-coating on their undercarriage parts (subframes, control arms, sway bars, brackets, etc.) so they do not hold up to salt as well as the underbodies of German vehicles that use much better paint on the underside.
Aluminum is pretty exposed to corrosion no matter what make and model. I've seen brand new M3s and M4s (one of the most common cars we do) right off the truck with 5 miles corroded to hell (engine head/block, most of the suspension is all aluminum as well as most of the undercarriage). Most high end calipers are aluminum so they are also prone to corrosion. Brembo and other high end calipers usually come coated but Lexus and other oem aluminum calipers are not coated with anything so corrosion will set in after salt exposure which leads to seized calipers and other issues. No way around it.
In short, Lexus is NOT the leader in the best paint/corrosion protection. Nowhere close to it. However, uncoated aluminum will be subject to corrosion on any car.
95% of the cars we do at our shop are German. Mainly BMW and Porsche but a good amount of Mercedes and Audi as well.
German cars most definitely have far better corrosion and rust protection than Japanese and American cars.
If you look at any new BMW you'll see tons of Cosmoline/body wax coming out of every drain hole of every panel. Pop the hood and you will see the same corrosion protection between metal panels, in every seam, between pinch welds, etc. Again you do not get this in Japanese cars.
This is body panel protection. This is why you rarely see any German cars rusting even after 25+ years. I think the only German cars that rusted in recent times were the 2000-2007ish era Mercedes C,E,and S Class cars when there was very apparent cost cutting. I've seen quite a few with rotting door panels along the center body molding and other parts.
German cars also have better paint in general over Japanese cars. Germans do not have the same regulations and can use a much harder clearcoat that is more resistant to scratching and failing over time. Japanese cars, especially the newer ones, have softer paint due to their regulations so they swirl and scratch quicker.
Most Japanese cars also use thinner/cheaper e-coating on their undercarriage parts (subframes, control arms, sway bars, brackets, etc.) so they do not hold up to salt as well as the underbodies of German vehicles that use much better paint on the underside.
Aluminum is pretty exposed to corrosion no matter what make and model. I've seen brand new M3s and M4s (one of the most common cars we do) right off the truck with 5 miles corroded to hell (engine head/block, most of the suspension is all aluminum as well as most of the undercarriage). Most high end calipers are aluminum so they are also prone to corrosion. Brembo and other high end calipers usually come coated but Lexus and other oem aluminum calipers are not coated with anything so corrosion will set in after salt exposure which leads to seized calipers and other issues. No way around it.
In short, Lexus is NOT the leader in the best paint/corrosion protection. Nowhere close to it. However, uncoated aluminum will be subject to corrosion on any car.
I have it somewhere, my original 1998 Nissan Maxima brochure, showing how extensive the corrosion protection was. I guess they never expected their cars to last so long and for people to realize what a lie that was! On my gen Maxima, lower radiator supports collapse after about 9 years in the northeast. And they typically rust very badly > 12 yrs. old. When you see a 198x W123 MB it makes me laugh. So what if it takes 18 sec. to reach 60 mph, where is the rust???!
Also, as it was explained to me, a FLA car will rust, as will homes/furnishings, when splashed by salt water. Otherwise the body panels should be in good shape. My LS430 is from Naples, according to the indie it's very obvious when on a lift...