No more V12 engines for Mercedes-AMG
04-06-18, 12:45 PM
#1
No more V12 engines for Mercedes-AMG
We were granted a bit of time with the head of Mercedes-AMG, Tobias Moers, during the New York Auto Showlast week. Among other topics, we asked him about AMG's famed V12 engines and whether they have much of a future with AMG. It seems they don't. Moers told us that he doesn't feel they're necessary for AMG's products, especially vehicles unique to the AMG brand such as the AMG GT.
It's hard to argue that point, too, since the twin-turbocharged 4.0-liter V8 in the AMG GT 63 S four-door makes 630 horsepower while S65 AMG's twin-turbo 6.0-liter V12 manages 621 hp. And sure, that V12 has considerably more torque (738 pound-feet to the GT S four-door's 627), but having four fewer cylinders means less weight hanging on top of the nose for improved handling. Plus the V8 is shared throughout the Mercedes family, so it's more affordable to develop, modify, and certify than a new V12.
While odds are we won't be seeing any new V12 powertrains from AMG in the future, Moers didn't rule out the engine in other Mercedes. He said that Mercedes would probably still use 12-cylinder engines in high-end luxury cars. In our interview, he didn't specify whether that included AMG-modified versions of Mercedes-Benz cars, such as the aforementioned AMG S 65, or if it would be restricted to Mercedes cars without any AMG association such as the Mercedes-Maybach S 650.
We learned a few other interesting tidbits from Mr. Moers, too, especially about the AMG GT four-door. Part of the reason AMG created the more practical GT model was because Mercedes was losing buyers to other car companies. Moers told us that existing owners of C- and E-Class AMG models were looking for something more exclusive and higher-performance, but also still practical. Unfortunately there wasn't really anything that fit until AMG launched its own four-door.
Also, the reason the AMG GT four-door can be had with more power than the omnipotent GT R coupe, is mainly because it's heavier and it has all-wheel drive. Moers said they choose output based on what feels right for the car, and the weight necessitated more power, and the all-wheel drive allowed it to easily manage that power.
It's hard to argue that point, too, since the twin-turbocharged 4.0-liter V8 in the AMG GT 63 S four-door makes 630 horsepower while S65 AMG's twin-turbo 6.0-liter V12 manages 621 hp. And sure, that V12 has considerably more torque (738 pound-feet to the GT S four-door's 627), but having four fewer cylinders means less weight hanging on top of the nose for improved handling. Plus the V8 is shared throughout the Mercedes family, so it's more affordable to develop, modify, and certify than a new V12.
While odds are we won't be seeing any new V12 powertrains from AMG in the future, Moers didn't rule out the engine in other Mercedes. He said that Mercedes would probably still use 12-cylinder engines in high-end luxury cars. In our interview, he didn't specify whether that included AMG-modified versions of Mercedes-Benz cars, such as the aforementioned AMG S 65, or if it would be restricted to Mercedes cars without any AMG association such as the Mercedes-Maybach S 650.
We learned a few other interesting tidbits from Mr. Moers, too, especially about the AMG GT four-door. Part of the reason AMG created the more practical GT model was because Mercedes was losing buyers to other car companies. Moers told us that existing owners of C- and E-Class AMG models were looking for something more exclusive and higher-performance, but also still practical. Unfortunately there wasn't really anything that fit until AMG launched its own four-door.
Also, the reason the AMG GT four-door can be had with more power than the omnipotent GT R coupe, is mainly because it's heavier and it has all-wheel drive. Moers said they choose output based on what feels right for the car, and the weight necessitated more power, and the all-wheel drive allowed it to easily manage that power.
04-06-18, 01:31 PM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
I don’t understand what it is with modern day blog sites and journalism in particular. The Mercedes boss didn’t exactly say “no more V12”. Of course he is going to play up the V8s as who is going to want to shell out cash for a V8 if the boss says V12s are the thing. I say thumbs down to Autoblog for this.
04-06-18, 01:42 PM
#3
I don’t understand what it is with modern day blog sites and journalism in particular. The Mercedes boss didn’t exactly say “no more V12”. Of course he is going to play up the V8s as who is going to want to shell out cash for a V8 if the boss says V12s are the thing. I say thumbs down to Autoblog for this.
He said that Mercedes would probably still use 12-cylinder engines in high-end luxury cars
04-06-18, 04:24 PM
#4
Lexus Test Driver
No way they are giving up on G65, S65, SL65, S600 cash cows.
Those cars are about $250k, they are made in such small #s that they have no effect on EPA requirements or whatever they have in Europe.
Those cars are about $250k, they are made in such small #s that they have no effect on EPA requirements or whatever they have in Europe.
04-06-18, 04:48 PM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
as much as i love having the V12 in the lineup, although i admit mostly for the sake of having one just cuz it's a V12, i really can't fault the thinking. i mean i'm pretty sure the G63 is quicker to 60 than the G65 because the much older V12 has more turbo lag and weighs more. still gotta love a V12 though...
04-06-18, 05:19 PM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
as much as i love having the V12 in the lineup, although i admit mostly for the sake of having one just cuz it's a V12, i really can't fault the thinking. i mean i'm pretty sure the G63 is quicker to 60 than the G65 because the much older V12 has more turbo lag and weighs more. still gotta love a V12 though...
04-06-18, 05:39 PM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
Today's V8s are so smooth, refined, and powerful (often producing comparable HP and torque) that I see little reason to offer V12s. It dates back to the old axiom of "There's no replacement for displacement" which goes back to the old street-rod era of the 1940s and 50s, and was true before the age of computers, electronic engine controls, and today's engineering tricks. Jaguar, of course, made part of its early reputation on smooth, low-displacement V12s, but, again, that was before the age of advanced computer control.
Trending Topics
04-06-18, 05:55 PM
#8
Lexus Champion
Benz has a history of V12s in their flagship class since the 1990s, so it was a heritage/pedigree and of course money making thing with them. Toyota could do this with Lexus too. The V12 1GZ in the Toyota Century goes back quite a few years too. But like mmarshall says, you have smooth refined V8s and the management at Toyota never felt the need to do it.
I'm more interested in finding out if the rumored V8tt in the LS F is going to turn out to be true.
I'm more interested in finding out if the rumored V8tt in the LS F is going to turn out to be true.
04-06-18, 06:53 PM
#9
MB's V12 is a pretty old motor, and really doesn't make much sense for the AMG models. It is great for non AMG models such as Maybach, where its low revving, completely silent, and provides tons of immediate, smooth thrust. If MB decides to make a new V12 with all the modern tech, maybe it will return to AMG.
04-06-18, 08:49 PM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
The new luxury is electric, not v12s. It's over.
04-07-18, 04:21 PM
#15
Lexus Test Driver
