2018 NY Auto Show - Observations
04-09-18, 10:01 AM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
You can say the same thing about spending 100K+ for a Lexus LS yet having to sit in the same service area next to a guy that bought a much less expensive lower end CT, HS, soccer moms who bought a RX, ES, or NX. What about having to sit next to the person that only paid 15K for a used Lexus model? I want to be at the dealership as little as possible no matter what I own, frankly there are times I don't like sitting next to some snobs and elitists who buy really expensive cars and often try to let you know they can buy those types of cars by how they act and how they treat other people. I often took my Lexus to a Toyota dealership because they normaly charged half to less then half of what the Lexus dealership was charging and I had no problem sitting next to people who bought Toyota's especially when I am saving a lot of money, I prefer DIY to save the most money, don't like being gouged at dealerships for simple maintenance and repairs.
04-09-18, 10:20 AM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
You can say the same thing about spending 100K+ for a Lexus LS yet having to sit in the same service area next to a guy that bought a much less expensive lower end CT, HS, soccer moms who bought a RX, ES, or NX. What about having to sit next to the person that only paid 15K for a used Lexus model? I want to be at the dealership as little as possible no matter what I own, frankly there are times I don't like sitting next to some snobs and elitists who buy really expensive cars and often try to let you know they can buy those types of cars by how they act and how they treat other people. I often took my Lexus to a Toyota dealership because they normaly charged half to less then half of what the Lexus dealership was charging and I had no problem sitting next to people who bought Toyota's especially when I am saving a lot of money, I prefer DIY to save the most money, don't like being gouged at dealerships for simple maintenance and repairs.
Took my LS430 to Toyota, paid $76 for a PA state inspection, nowhere to sit in the dealer. It's not about snobs or moms or anything, nowhere to sit, it was that busy. BMW? $40 for the very same inspection, and 2018 loaner. Completely different business models. BMW even does you a favor and tells you to come back every month to redo your loaner paperwork. Why? Because if over 30 days, your insurance won't cover it, and will not consider the loaner a temporary use auto. Point being, it's not uncommon for BMW to loan out cars over a month (serious repairs, or no parts).
I don't think that if one were to spend $80k on a car, that it's reasonable to expect a loaner car while service is performed. It does not make you a snob. However, I always did find it a bit "assuming" when I'd see people come back because they wanted a different color for their BMW loaner. But there are all kinds out there.
04-09-18, 10:21 AM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
What exactly is the "typical luxury car owner"? A snob that has their nose up in the air and does not like being around non luxury car owners at the dealership? Someone who leases(rents) a de contented 4cyl 3 series or C class where all their neighbors and co workers own Accords, Camry's, CRV's, and Corrola's? Luxury car owners are very different today from the ones in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. Are you a "typical luxury car owner".
I am a car enthusiast, I don't particularly care what brand I am buying or what it does for my ego as long as the actual car delivers what I want.
I am a car enthusiast, I don't particularly care what brand I am buying or what it does for my ego as long as the actual car delivers what I want.
04-09-18, 10:54 AM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
04-09-18, 11:30 AM
#35
Pole Position
imho it likely dates back to 1989, that Lexus has been quite dissimilar to MB and BMW. Just look at their events, and launches.
Ok so I seem to have been scratched off the 7 Series list since the F came out (unless they didn't do one for the G), but that was held in a fancy gallery with alcohol and expensive catering, with the car under a cover. Ditto for the E90 in spring 2005. My buddy got on a ferry which sailed around Liberty Island.
For the LS500? I got an email saying to stop by the dealership for some light refreshments. That's it? hahahahahaha
BMW had a golf outing at the Cricket Club (I admit they are poorly organized by some co. out of Greenwich CT, lately with no confirmation/follow-up after registration), next thing you know the following Monday I got an email, sorry we missed you hahahahaha
My point is you would think that Lexus sells itself, or doesn't require any marketing, because you don't really see much going on. So it would not surprise me to see no interest in their area of an auto show. Naysayers will never understand why people ooooh and ahhhhhh over a FWD BMW X1, yet have zero interest in NXt200's. BMW could push a 2 cyl. 1WD car and people would buy it and love it.
Ok so I seem to have been scratched off the 7 Series list since the F came out (unless they didn't do one for the G), but that was held in a fancy gallery with alcohol and expensive catering, with the car under a cover. Ditto for the E90 in spring 2005. My buddy got on a ferry which sailed around Liberty Island.
For the LS500? I got an email saying to stop by the dealership for some light refreshments. That's it? hahahahahaha
BMW had a golf outing at the Cricket Club (I admit they are poorly organized by some co. out of Greenwich CT, lately with no confirmation/follow-up after registration), next thing you know the following Monday I got an email, sorry we missed you hahahahaha
My point is you would think that Lexus sells itself, or doesn't require any marketing, because you don't really see much going on. So it would not surprise me to see no interest in their area of an auto show. Naysayers will never understand why people ooooh and ahhhhhh over a FWD BMW X1, yet have zero interest in NXt200's. BMW could push a 2 cyl. 1WD car and people would buy it and love it.
04-09-18, 11:33 AM
#36
Pole Position
You can say the same thing about spending 100K+ for a Lexus LS yet having to sit in the same service area next to a guy that bought a much less expensive lower end CT, HS, soccer moms who bought a RX, ES, or NX. What about having to sit next to the person that only paid 15K for a used Lexus model? I want to be at the dealership as little as possible no matter what I own, frankly there are times I don't like sitting next to some snobs and elitists who buy really expensive cars and often try to let you know they can buy those types of cars by how they act and how they treat other people. I often took my Lexus to a Toyota dealership because they normaly charged half to less then half of what the Lexus dealership was charging and I had no problem sitting next to people who bought Toyota's especially when I am saving a lot of money, I prefer DIY to save the most money, don't like being gouged at dealerships for simple maintenance and repairs.
04-09-18, 04:08 PM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Once the deals network is built out, you will see the service pick up go away.
Many things work in ways people do not realize. Overcoming brand loyalty and brand perceptions is very difficult to achieve. Gaining it is also hard to do.
lexus at this point feels like a buffed up toyota.
i think you will see more subscription car offerings (bmw rolling out theirs now of course) and pickup service like i have with genesis. why not? i don't have to go to a store to get most stuff (thank you amazon) and i don't have to go to the movies to watch one (thanks netflix), and i don't have to hang glide over a waterfall in iceland to see a cool view of it (thanks drones
). bring service TO the consumer is the new way, not sitting in some large shiny waiting room with people coughing, scratching, tapping on their computers or phones, etc.
Not to sound like a snob, but if you've bought an $80k Genesis, I highly doubt you want to be sitting in the same service area next to the guy that just bought a $18k Elantra or whatever they have these days.
Lexus and the German rivals are a different mindset. I've poked my head into a Lexus lounge 2X, to grab a designer water, and they were full. Older crowd, but full. At BMW, empty. Your car can be 12 y.o., you leave with a mos. old loaner. Why? Because your time is valuable and there's no need to sit in a car dealership. The flip side? Sometimes when you haven't heard back from the SA about your oil change for 3 days, they assumed you're ok with it because you have a 2018 loaner, and your car is a 2007. The other flip side? There's a recall on your 2007, and there are no parts available, so have a 2016 loaner for months or a year, sorry for the inconvenience.
and the person driving the new loaner is getting a great extended test drive and may just come back and say "keep that POS, i want this"
I don't think that if one were to spend $80k on a car, that it's reasonable to expect a loaner car while service is performed.
maybe but they're off to a decent start but now need the cuv/suv.
04-09-18, 09:33 PM
#40
Lexus Champion
What exactly is the "typical luxury car owner"? A snob that has their nose up in the air and does not like being around non luxury car owners at the dealership? Someone who leases(rents) a de contented 4cyl 3 series or C class where all their neighbors and co workers own Accords, Camry's, CRV's, and Corrola's? Luxury car owners are very different today from the ones in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. Are you a "typical luxury car owner".
I am a car enthusiast, I don't particularly care what brand I am buying or what it does for my ego as long as the actual car delivers what I want.
I am a car enthusiast, I don't particularly care what brand I am buying or what it does for my ego as long as the actual car delivers what I want.
04-10-18, 05:05 PM
#41
For as hard as Lexus is trying to generate excitement for the brand, the Germans dont seem to try as hard. They just put out products that people line up to sit in, not even a test drive, just to sit in. That alone justifies MB and BMW's 1st and 2nd place sales position. Before anybody jumps on me for hating on Lexus, especially that mba marketing guy, it saddens and pains me to see the lack of enthusiasm for Lexus products.
Especially when it comes to BMW's, I spent all day today sitting in cars at car show, and I really dont know why would anyone line up to sit in most BMWs. I can understand it about MB, about new Audi's and I can understand it about certain Lexii, but BMW really has boring interiors and quality is mostly not up to the par to the competition.
04-10-18, 06:07 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
Especially when it comes to BMW's, I spent all day today sitting in cars at car show, and I really dont know why would anyone line up to sit in most BMWs. I can understand it about MB, about new Audi's and I can understand it about certain Lexii, but BMW really has boring interiors and quality is mostly not up to the par to the competition.
04-10-18, 08:44 PM
#43
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Lol, but so who is buying all those Lexii sold in the states? BTW, Lexus actually outsold BMW in 2017 if you look by car registrations vs dealer sales, BMW had some extra sales that were for cars exported out of USA which pumped up theirs numbers a bit. Jim Lentz commented about this based on Polk survey data at end of the year sales call.
Especially when it comes to BMW's, I spent all day today sitting in cars at car show, and I really dont know why would anyone line up to sit in most BMWs. I can understand it about MB, about new Audi's and I can understand it about certain Lexii, but BMW really has boring interiors and quality is mostly not up to the par to the competition.
Especially when it comes to BMW's, I spent all day today sitting in cars at car show, and I really dont know why would anyone line up to sit in most BMWs. I can understand it about MB, about new Audi's and I can understand it about certain Lexii, but BMW really has boring interiors and quality is mostly not up to the par to the competition.
BMWs are amazing in terms of customization, technology, and balance of sport/luxury.
The quality of materials in all its models is very high. The Idrive system is simply the best and if u used it for so many years its hard to change. The inline 6 engines are superb and are the best mainstream luxury engine you can get imo - smooth effortless power. All the M models and Mperformance cars that actually have more power and other sport oriented features. Their SUVs still have the best road manners unless you get a Macan. I can go on.......
No car maker is perfect and BMW does have its faults. I'm not a big fan of the styling on the new 5 and 7series, the new X7 looks hideous. I don't like they are leaning so much more to Luxury over sport on the non M models.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 04-10-18 at 08:59 PM.
04-10-18, 09:12 PM
#44
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by Johnhav430
Lexus and the German rivals are a different mindset. I've poked my head into a Lexus lounge 2X, to grab a designer water, and they were full. Older crowd, but full. At BMW, empty. Your car can be 12 y.o., you leave with a mos. old loaner. Why? Because your time is valuable and there's no need to sit in a car dealership. The flip side? Sometimes when you haven't heard back from the SA about your oil change for 3 days, they assumed you're ok with it because you have a 2018 loaner, and your car is a 2007. The other flip side? There's a recall on your 2007, and there are no parts available, so have a 2016 loaner for months or a year, sorry for the inconvenience.
Took my LS430 to Toyota, paid $76 for a PA state inspection, nowhere to sit in the dealer. It's not about snobs or moms or anything, nowhere to sit, it was that busy. BMW? $40 for the very same inspection, and 2018 loaner. Completely different business models. BMW even does you a favor and tells you to come back every month to redo your loaner paperwork. Why? Because if over 30 days, your insurance won't cover it, and will not consider the loaner a temporary use auto. Point being, it's not uncommon for BMW to loan out cars over a month (serious repairs, or no parts).
I don't think that if one were to spend $80k on a car, that it's reasonable to expect a loaner car while service is performed. It does not make you a snob. However, I always did find it a bit "assuming" when I'd see people come back because they wanted a different color for their BMW loaner. But there are all kinds out there.
Took my LS430 to Toyota, paid $76 for a PA state inspection, nowhere to sit in the dealer. It's not about snobs or moms or anything, nowhere to sit, it was that busy. BMW? $40 for the very same inspection, and 2018 loaner. Completely different business models. BMW even does you a favor and tells you to come back every month to redo your loaner paperwork. Why? Because if over 30 days, your insurance won't cover it, and will not consider the loaner a temporary use auto. Point being, it's not uncommon for BMW to loan out cars over a month (serious repairs, or no parts).
I don't think that if one were to spend $80k on a car, that it's reasonable to expect a loaner car while service is performed. It does not make you a snob. However, I always did find it a bit "assuming" when I'd see people come back because they wanted a different color for their BMW loaner. But there are all kinds out there.
The BMW area is busy because they just tend to break more. The loaners are Corollas. Haha. I was like WTF! The Audi's are even worse. They hail an Enterprise for you if they run out of loaners. On average, I've had better experiences at Lexus dealerships than any other dealerships.
04-10-18, 09:19 PM
#45
Lead Lap
Todays tech first focus on vehicles makes it hard to swing for a Luxury Marque, why pay 50K for a label when something that priced for half has the same features standard or actually has more features unavailable in the luxury marque. I`ll pass judgement once they launch the ES (avalon twin) to see what Lexus has done to differentiate itself.
I think car makers have also seen the light (dont like this direction but), that once tech runs the show will the majority of shoppers really care of a badge? Hence the move from vehicle product sales, to a service based subscription model. And the thing that will differentiate models in subscription would be the perks
IS/ES=bring the car in yourself for service
GS=on demand scheduled pickups with loaner
LS=white glove service
Or some form of it. No longer can you rest on just having adaptive cruise as a $2k option package
I think car makers have also seen the light (dont like this direction but), that once tech runs the show will the majority of shoppers really care of a badge? Hence the move from vehicle product sales, to a service based subscription model. And the thing that will differentiate models in subscription would be the perks
IS/ES=bring the car in yourself for service
GS=on demand scheduled pickups with loaner
LS=white glove service
Or some form of it. No longer can you rest on just having adaptive cruise as a $2k option package