2019 Porsche Cayenne E-Hybrid
05-02-18, 12:46 PM
#1
2019 Porsche Cayenne E-Hybrid
27 miles of electric range, 0-60 mph in 4.7
The 2019 Porsche Cayenne is the third generation of the German automaker's perennial cash cow. We all know the story by now. Sales of the Cayenne and Macan SUVs allow Porsche to fund projects like GT-division products such as the new 2019 Porsche 911 GT3 RS. In an effort to broaden Porsche's customer base and help fend off the gas-guzzling reputation of SUVs in general, a new version of the Cayenne E-Hybrid plug-in will go on sale in early 2019.
As expected, the new Cayenne E-Hybrid improves on its predecessor in every measurable aspect. It uses a single-turbo 3.0-liter V6 paired with an electric motor. Total system output is 455 horsepower and 516 pound-feet of torque, the latter fully available at just 1,000 rpm. The new model hits 60 mph in just 4.7 seconds and runs the quarter-mile in just 13.3 seconds, 0.7 and 0.9 seconds better respectively than the outgoing model. The Cayenne E-Hybrid's top speed is now 157 mph.
Of course, the big benefit of any plug-in hybrid is all-electric driving. The Cayenne E-Hybrid uses a 14.1 kWh battery pack that's housed in the rear under the cargo load floor. EPA fuel economy figures haven't been released, but the Cayenne has a range of just over 27 miles based on European estimates. Top all-electric speed is 83 mph. Using a 230-volt 32-amp connection and the optional 7.2 kW onboard charger, the battery can be recharged in just 2.3 hours. With 10 amps and the standard 3.6 kW charger, the Cayenne takes 7.8 hours to charge. Both are improvements over the outgoing model.
Owners can monitor charging using the Porsche Connect smartphone app. This also allows them to remotely access the Cayenne's climate control system. The app can also be used to find and navigate to charging stations.
The Cayenne E-Hybrid has six drive modes that vary from all-electric to pure performance. The E-Power mode powers the car using just the electric motor until the battery is depleted. Hybrid Auto mode combines both powertrains to achieve maximum efficiency. E-Hold mode holds the battery's charge for use later on. E-Charge mode uses the gasoline engine's excess energy to charge the battery. Sport and Sport Plus modes are focused on performance with varying degrees of power.
Visually, the Cayenne E-Hybrid gets the requisite Acid Green accents on the badging and brake calipers. It also gets 22-inch wheels, the first ever for a Porsche. Inside, the E-Hybrid has Acid Green needles on the tachometer and Sport Chrono dial. The Sport Chrono package and Porsche Active Suspension Management are now standard on all Cayenne E-Hybrids. Hybrid-specific readings include battery charge, energy consumption and drive mode.
Optional features include a heads-up display, an off-road package and Porsche InnoDrive. The latter uses navigation to look 1.8 miles up the road and adjust the E-Hybrid's gearing and gasoline/hybrid hand-off to maximize efficiency.
The 2019 Cayenne E-Hybrid will go on sale in early 2019 with a base price of $80,950, the same as the 2018 Cayenne S E-Hybrid and just a few grand less than a base gasoline-powered 2019 Cayenne S.
As expected, the new Cayenne E-Hybrid improves on its predecessor in every measurable aspect. It uses a single-turbo 3.0-liter V6 paired with an electric motor. Total system output is 455 horsepower and 516 pound-feet of torque, the latter fully available at just 1,000 rpm. The new model hits 60 mph in just 4.7 seconds and runs the quarter-mile in just 13.3 seconds, 0.7 and 0.9 seconds better respectively than the outgoing model. The Cayenne E-Hybrid's top speed is now 157 mph.
Of course, the big benefit of any plug-in hybrid is all-electric driving. The Cayenne E-Hybrid uses a 14.1 kWh battery pack that's housed in the rear under the cargo load floor. EPA fuel economy figures haven't been released, but the Cayenne has a range of just over 27 miles based on European estimates. Top all-electric speed is 83 mph. Using a 230-volt 32-amp connection and the optional 7.2 kW onboard charger, the battery can be recharged in just 2.3 hours. With 10 amps and the standard 3.6 kW charger, the Cayenne takes 7.8 hours to charge. Both are improvements over the outgoing model.
Owners can monitor charging using the Porsche Connect smartphone app. This also allows them to remotely access the Cayenne's climate control system. The app can also be used to find and navigate to charging stations.
The Cayenne E-Hybrid has six drive modes that vary from all-electric to pure performance. The E-Power mode powers the car using just the electric motor until the battery is depleted. Hybrid Auto mode combines both powertrains to achieve maximum efficiency. E-Hold mode holds the battery's charge for use later on. E-Charge mode uses the gasoline engine's excess energy to charge the battery. Sport and Sport Plus modes are focused on performance with varying degrees of power.
Visually, the Cayenne E-Hybrid gets the requisite Acid Green accents on the badging and brake calipers. It also gets 22-inch wheels, the first ever for a Porsche. Inside, the E-Hybrid has Acid Green needles on the tachometer and Sport Chrono dial. The Sport Chrono package and Porsche Active Suspension Management are now standard on all Cayenne E-Hybrids. Hybrid-specific readings include battery charge, energy consumption and drive mode.
Optional features include a heads-up display, an off-road package and Porsche InnoDrive. The latter uses navigation to look 1.8 miles up the road and adjust the E-Hybrid's gearing and gasoline/hybrid hand-off to maximize efficiency.
The 2019 Cayenne E-Hybrid will go on sale in early 2019 with a base price of $80,950, the same as the 2018 Cayenne S E-Hybrid and just a few grand less than a base gasoline-powered 2019 Cayenne S.
05-02-18, 04:43 PM
#3
a. for those markets that give out incentives for that range
b. It allows for more EV power than regular hybrid... so you get extra 100hp to make it super fast for a while vs regular hybrid mode.
But annoying thing with these in Europe is how they never show their hybrid only mpg - ie what is the mpg if they dont charge it, or if battery gets depleted so it is in hybrid mode like RX450h?
Only EPA mandates this rating, EU ratings do not - I have a friend who was telling me how amazing XC90 PHEV fuel economy was at 2l/100km, not even realizing it is fuel consumption in EV mode for more than half of the way during testing!
Also:
With 10 amps and the standard 3.6 kW charger, the Cayenne takes 7.8 hours to charge. Both are improvements over the outgoing model.
05-02-18, 04:51 PM
#4
edit: old 2018 model had 17 miles range and 22 mpg in hybrid mode, 5.4s 0-60 mph when charged and 6.8s in hybrid mode.
Since battery is only 3.3kwh larger (30%) I assume it will get 22-23 miles of charge under EPA, not 27.
Since battery is only 3.3kwh larger (30%) I assume it will get 22-23 miles of charge under EPA, not 27.
05-02-18, 07:16 PM
#5
Lexus Champion
Compliance PR vehicle indeed! I call this hybrid and the other German hybrids lowest common denominator hybrid engineering.
By merely replacing the automatic tranmission's torque converter with one single electric motor-generator, it is an either/or vehicle -- you are either driving with the electric motor OR charging the battery, but you cannot drive with the electric motor AND have a second generator charge the battery, like you can on Toyota/Lexus, Ford/Lincoln, Honda Accord Hybrid and GM Voltec hybrid powertrains.
Drive in EV mode until the battery discharges, then it essentially becomes a mere mild hybrid because the gasoline engine will switch on to drive the vehicle and charge the battery. If there were a second electric motor-generator, the second motor could trickle-charge the battery even as the first motor is driving the vehicle.
This is such simple hybrid vehicle design. Could the Germans, known for their engineering knowhow, not have come up with something better?
By merely replacing the automatic tranmission's torque converter with one single electric motor-generator, it is an either/or vehicle -- you are either driving with the electric motor OR charging the battery, but you cannot drive with the electric motor AND have a second generator charge the battery, like you can on Toyota/Lexus, Ford/Lincoln, Honda Accord Hybrid and GM Voltec hybrid powertrains.
Drive in EV mode until the battery discharges, then it essentially becomes a mere mild hybrid because the gasoline engine will switch on to drive the vehicle and charge the battery. If there were a second electric motor-generator, the second motor could trickle-charge the battery even as the first motor is driving the vehicle.
This is such simple hybrid vehicle design. Could the Germans, known for their engineering knowhow, not have come up with something better?
05-03-18, 04:12 AM
#6
Lexus Test Driver
Gods forbid you run the thing with the battery depleted. Then the undersized engine uses up lots of fuel dragging 200 kg of the battery pack's dead weight. These things weigh 2400 kg, even more than a Model S with a much larger pack.
I also don't get the "80 mph in EV mode!" nonsense because you won't get far going that fast. This Cayenne, the X5e and XC90 T8 look good on paper but they hit their efficiency numbers only if you travel within the electric-only range and you keep the batteries charged. No wonder Toyota stuck with 1.4 kWh packs instead of heavier 14 kWh plug-in packs. Go hybrid or go EV, don't bother with a crappy compromise.
I also don't get the "80 mph in EV mode!" nonsense because you won't get far going that fast. This Cayenne, the X5e and XC90 T8 look good on paper but they hit their efficiency numbers only if you travel within the electric-only range and you keep the batteries charged. No wonder Toyota stuck with 1.4 kWh packs instead of heavier 14 kWh plug-in packs. Go hybrid or go EV, don't bother with a crappy compromise.
05-03-18, 04:46 AM
#7
Compliance PR vehicle indeed! I call this hybrid and the other German hybrids lowest common denominator hybrid engineering.
By merely replacing the automatic tranmission's torque converter with one single electric motor-generator, it is an either/or vehicle -- you are either driving with the electric motor OR charging the battery, but you cannot drive with the electric motor AND have a second generator charge the battery, like you can on Toyota/Lexus, Ford/Lincoln, Honda Accord Hybrid and GM Voltec hybrid powertrains.
Drive in EV mode until the battery discharges, then it essentially becomes a mere mild hybrid because the gasoline engine will switch on to drive the vehicle and charge the battery. If there were a second electric motor-generator, the second motor could trickle-charge the battery even as the first motor is driving the vehicle.
This is such simple hybrid vehicle design. Could the Germans, known for their engineering knowhow, not have come up with something better?
By merely replacing the automatic tranmission's torque converter with one single electric motor-generator, it is an either/or vehicle -- you are either driving with the electric motor OR charging the battery, but you cannot drive with the electric motor AND have a second generator charge the battery, like you can on Toyota/Lexus, Ford/Lincoln, Honda Accord Hybrid and GM Voltec hybrid powertrains.
Drive in EV mode until the battery discharges, then it essentially becomes a mere mild hybrid because the gasoline engine will switch on to drive the vehicle and charge the battery. If there were a second electric motor-generator, the second motor could trickle-charge the battery even as the first motor is driving the vehicle.
This is such simple hybrid vehicle design. Could the Germans, known for their engineering knowhow, not have come up with something better?
Darn... I want to see what can Toyota do with 10-15kwh battery in their hybrids. But it has to charge fast, it is such a "small" battery!
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05-03-18, 06:33 AM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
Toyota won't do it in their big hybrids because it'll kill fuel efficiency. A big ES hybrid weighs 1600 kg with a 1.4 kWh NiMH pack and gets 45 mpg; a plugin hybrid version with a 14 kWh Li-ion pack could weigh 200 kg more and only get the rated fuel efficiency with a fully charged pack. In daily driving with a depleted pack, you could only charge a fraction of the total capacity from regen braking and running the engine as a generator. The uncharged capacity would be dead weight equivalent to two passengers.
I think they did it for the Prius Prime to test the market and because that car isn't very big or heavy. The next step would be an EV Prius and the EV CH-R that's coming to China.
I think they did it for the Prius Prime to test the market and because that car isn't very big or heavy. The next step would be an EV Prius and the EV CH-R that's coming to China.
05-03-18, 06:56 AM
#9
Lexus Champion
Even the current state-of-the-science lithium-ion battery is large, heavy, has relatively small capacity, takes so long to charge, and is expensive for what little it offers. Putting a larger battery in a normal hybrid vehicle (like the Camry Hybrid or Porsche Hybrid) to make it a plug-in hybrid is easy, but the compromises are many.
How large of a battery do you put in before it becomes unattainable -- takes up so much space, weighs so much that vehicle balance is seriously affected, and takes so long to charge that it sits charging for longer periods than it is driving?
All of that is hampered by a parallel-hybrid design that many automakers (especially the Germans) are starting from. These simple plug-in hybrids are hampered by both a large, heavy battery and a large, heavy internal combustion engine and transmission. These simple plug-in hybrids may offer the ability to drive for about 50 km (30 miles) in EV mode before the fully-charged battery is discharged, but then it becomes just another regular hybrid but one that is hampered by having to drag around a large, heavy battery that it can never fully make use of (because it can never fully recharge that large battery while driving).
A better plug-in hybrid, in my opinion, is not a parallel-hybrid but a true electric vehicle with a small-as-possible (and light-as-possible) serial-hybrid range extender. In a serial-hybrid, the electric motor is always driving the vehicle and the range extender merely trickle-charges the battery as required to keep the battery charge topped up; the range extender should never drive the vehicle, which means it does not have to be very powerful (like the turbocharged engines the Germans use in their hybrids).
05-04-18, 03:24 AM
#10
I can understand why an engineer would not want to design and build a plug-in hybrid -- it is because of the shortcomings of current batteries.
Even the current state-of-the-science lithium-ion battery is large, heavy, has relatively small capacity, takes so long to charge, and is expensive for what little it offers. Putting a larger battery in a normal hybrid vehicle (like the Camry Hybrid or Porsche Hybrid) to make it a plug-in hybrid is easy, but the compromises are many.
How large of a battery do you put in before it becomes unattainable -- takes up so much space, weighs so much that vehicle balance is seriously affected, and takes so long to charge that it sits charging for longer periods than it is driving?
All of that is hampered by a parallel-hybrid design that many automakers (especially the Germans) are starting from. These simple plug-in hybrids are hampered by both a large, heavy battery and a large, heavy internal combustion engine and transmission. These simple plug-in hybrids may offer the ability to drive for about 50 km (30 miles) in EV mode before the fully-charged battery is discharged, but then it becomes just another regular hybrid but one that is hampered by having to drag around a large, heavy battery that it can never fully make use of (because it can never fully recharge that large battery while driving).
A better plug-in hybrid, in my opinion, is not a parallel-hybrid but a true electric vehicle with a small-as-possible (and light-as-possible) serial-hybrid range extender. In a serial-hybrid, the electric motor is always driving the vehicle and the range extender merely trickle-charges the battery as required to keep the battery charge topped up; the range extender should never drive the vehicle, which means it does not have to be very powerful (like the turbocharged engines the Germans use in their hybrids).
Even the current state-of-the-science lithium-ion battery is large, heavy, has relatively small capacity, takes so long to charge, and is expensive for what little it offers. Putting a larger battery in a normal hybrid vehicle (like the Camry Hybrid or Porsche Hybrid) to make it a plug-in hybrid is easy, but the compromises are many.
How large of a battery do you put in before it becomes unattainable -- takes up so much space, weighs so much that vehicle balance is seriously affected, and takes so long to charge that it sits charging for longer periods than it is driving?
All of that is hampered by a parallel-hybrid design that many automakers (especially the Germans) are starting from. These simple plug-in hybrids are hampered by both a large, heavy battery and a large, heavy internal combustion engine and transmission. These simple plug-in hybrids may offer the ability to drive for about 50 km (30 miles) in EV mode before the fully-charged battery is discharged, but then it becomes just another regular hybrid but one that is hampered by having to drag around a large, heavy battery that it can never fully make use of (because it can never fully recharge that large battery while driving).
A better plug-in hybrid, in my opinion, is not a parallel-hybrid but a true electric vehicle with a small-as-possible (and light-as-possible) serial-hybrid range extender. In a serial-hybrid, the electric motor is always driving the vehicle and the range extender merely trickle-charges the battery as required to keep the battery charge topped up; the range extender should never drive the vehicle, which means it does not have to be very powerful (like the turbocharged engines the Germans use in their hybrids).
1. Imagine IS300h. It has 223hp. Now add 25 mile plugin to it. It will add around 100kg weight in batteries and it will add around 80hp in electric power, making it 300hp car. MPG and speed when out of battery juice will stay about the same as in Prius Prime. With fast charger inside, that would make sense, right? Because adding V6 will not be lighter or faster than that.
2. If you have an EV, adding range extender to it also adds unnecessary weight and complexity. People who dont have chargers close will just get regular car.
- Nissan has their e-power hybrid which is driven as EV and gas engine just chargers the battery. It drives fast as EV and people like it in Japan, top seller... They say it is cheap but not sure since they are not offering same tech outside Japan, which to me it means it is not cheap.
05-04-18, 03:52 AM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Compliance PR vehicle indeed! I call this hybrid and the other German hybrids lowest common denominator hybrid engineering.
...
Drive in EV mode until the battery discharges, then it essentially becomes a mere mild hybrid because the gasoline engine will switch on to drive the vehicle and charge the battery. If there were a second electric motor-generator, the second motor could trickle-charge the battery even as the first motor is driving the vehicle.
...
Drive in EV mode until the battery discharges, then it essentially becomes a mere mild hybrid because the gasoline engine will switch on to drive the vehicle and charge the battery. If there were a second electric motor-generator, the second motor could trickle-charge the battery even as the first motor is driving the vehicle.
05-04-18, 04:04 AM
#12
Pole Position
The future of cars is plug-in hybrids but not with a range of 27 miles. Upwards of 45 miles, the average driver could go most days using no gas. When they do covert over to gas and hybrid they would be getting 40 mpg's would be a winner. I will drive right by the Tesla sitting at a charging station for two hours while taking a 300 mile plus trip. Come on Lexus when, the Prius already has this ????
05-04-18, 06:07 AM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
Lexus will do this when they see a real market for it, instead of a bunch of compliance vehicles like this Porsche and most European plug-in hybrids. Prius Prime sales are encouraging but PHEVs as a whole aren't selling well - look at slow sales for the Fusion Energi or Volt.
I'm not sure if a range extender is the most efficient use of an engine. Planetary gear hybrid transmissions used by Toyota, Ford and GM can use the engine to turn the driveshaft directly or through an electrical path to the motors. A range extender can only convert crank rotation into electrical power; this isn't the most efficient path when climbing up steep grades, for example.
An engine in a serial or parallel hybrid setup is just one more thing to go wrong whereas an EV only has motors as the main moving parts. All that space and weight for an engine and its ancillary parts could be used for batteries instead. I have a feeling PHEVs won't be long in the market and they'll be replaced by BEVs by the mid-2020s.
I'm not sure if a range extender is the most efficient use of an engine. Planetary gear hybrid transmissions used by Toyota, Ford and GM can use the engine to turn the driveshaft directly or through an electrical path to the motors. A range extender can only convert crank rotation into electrical power; this isn't the most efficient path when climbing up steep grades, for example.
An engine in a serial or parallel hybrid setup is just one more thing to go wrong whereas an EV only has motors as the main moving parts. All that space and weight for an engine and its ancillary parts could be used for batteries instead. I have a feeling PHEVs won't be long in the market and they'll be replaced by BEVs by the mid-2020s.
05-04-18, 06:08 AM
#14
Lexus Champion
i don't pretend to understand all these trade-offs but the part i highlighted doesn't make any sense to me. if there's a 'second electric motor-generator' to charge the battery, that adds resistance/friction for the first motor to overcome either increasing it's battery consumption or slowing the vehicle, there's no free lunch. what am i missing?
Having a second motor that acts as a generator is what makes the Toyota, Ford and Honda Accord hybrids so efficient.
05-04-18, 06:10 AM
#15
If I could weigh in here, I have a BMW 530e with a similar electric range and I absolutely love it. My commute is 11miles one way so I get there and back on electric power, instant torque is phenomenal and never leaves me wanting for power. I've driven it over 5000km and have averaged 2.6L/100km/90MPG. Its perfect for the city and the cost penalty isn't nearly as bad as going full electric, its within a few thousand dollars for a regular 530i. The Cayenne would absolutely make sense for me if I was in the market for one.