Buying used car at a dealership - questions
05-04-18, 06:31 PM
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Buying used car at a dealership - questions
I found a car (2013 RX350) at a Lexus Dealership that has all the options I want. I am ready to buy it, but the price seems to be a little high to me.
I used the same dealership website to get a trade in value for a car with the same options and ideal condition and they appraise it at $22K. Same with KBB.com.
But the same car is selling for $28K (Certified).
I have several question about buying process:
1. How much can I realistically expect them to go down assuming the paid $22K for the car?
2. Do Lexus dealerships usually value trade ins? If their website says $22K trade in value, can they pay more? Or if the vehicle have some minor cosmetic imperfections - will they try to knock the trade in price down? How much?
3. Also, I don't expect to drive much (2000 miles a year) so I won't enjoy full benefit of the warranty. Is it possible to exclude the warranty? If yes, then how much should affect the selling price?
The car is 500 miles from me so I am not sure how I should even proceed with this. Should I maybe call them and negotiate on the price over the phone?
4. My current car is a piece of junk. 2002 Bonneville that really starting to show its age (sunroof is leaking, tires need replacing, dents and scratches all over). 140K miles. But drives very good though. The kbb says it worth around $3-4K, but with all the issues it has - I would be happy to get $2000 for it. Can they refuse to take it? Or can they offer some ridiculous offer (like $500)? I think I can get that much from a junk yard .
I am asking because I would rather fly there , but if they are going to take my junk and give me a fair price for it ($2K) - I would gladly drive there.
Any advise would be appreciated.
I used the same dealership website to get a trade in value for a car with the same options and ideal condition and they appraise it at $22K. Same with KBB.com.
But the same car is selling for $28K (Certified).
I have several question about buying process:
1. How much can I realistically expect them to go down assuming the paid $22K for the car?
2. Do Lexus dealerships usually value trade ins? If their website says $22K trade in value, can they pay more? Or if the vehicle have some minor cosmetic imperfections - will they try to knock the trade in price down? How much?
3. Also, I don't expect to drive much (2000 miles a year) so I won't enjoy full benefit of the warranty. Is it possible to exclude the warranty? If yes, then how much should affect the selling price?
The car is 500 miles from me so I am not sure how I should even proceed with this. Should I maybe call them and negotiate on the price over the phone?
4. My current car is a piece of junk. 2002 Bonneville that really starting to show its age (sunroof is leaking, tires need replacing, dents and scratches all over). 140K miles. But drives very good though. The kbb says it worth around $3-4K, but with all the issues it has - I would be happy to get $2000 for it. Can they refuse to take it? Or can they offer some ridiculous offer (like $500)? I think I can get that much from a junk yard .
I am asking because I would rather fly there , but if they are going to take my junk and give me a fair price for it ($2K) - I would gladly drive there.
Any advise would be appreciated.
05-04-18, 07:01 PM
#2
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Well you're in a tough spot simply because I don't think you're going to get far negotiating over the phone, you really kind of need to go there. It being 500 miles away makes it too much of a risk in my opinion, I'd look elsewhere.
But let's say you go there...the price? $28,000. Doesn't really matter what the trade in value is, they're only going to sell it for what they want, whether that's 28k, 27k, 25k. It all depends on how busy they are, how much they need a sale and if they're a high volume dealer. Some place might come down a couple grand, but some might just wait it out until they find someone who will pay. Or they'll gradually lower their price, once again taking their time.
About the only thing I'm certain of is that you will get next to nothing for your 2002 Bonneville. They
might offer you $500 and then they'll ship it right off to the auction where they won't get much more than that (if that). A sixteen year old Pontiac isn't worth much even to a junk yard, maybe $100 (junk yards aren't giving much for cars anymore, the price of metal has come down so far).
KBB means nothing to these dealers, in fact I don't think it means much to anybody anymore. It all just depends on how busy these dealers are, if they aren't selling cars you'll get what you want. If they're busy? You don't have much negotiating power.
But let's say you go there...the price? $28,000. Doesn't really matter what the trade in value is, they're only going to sell it for what they want, whether that's 28k, 27k, 25k. It all depends on how busy they are, how much they need a sale and if they're a high volume dealer. Some place might come down a couple grand, but some might just wait it out until they find someone who will pay. Or they'll gradually lower their price, once again taking their time.
About the only thing I'm certain of is that you will get next to nothing for your 2002 Bonneville. They
might offer you $500 and then they'll ship it right off to the auction where they won't get much more than that (if that). A sixteen year old Pontiac isn't worth much even to a junk yard, maybe $100 (junk yards aren't giving much for cars anymore, the price of metal has come down so far).
KBB means nothing to these dealers, in fact I don't think it means much to anybody anymore. It all just depends on how busy these dealers are, if they aren't selling cars you'll get what you want. If they're busy? You don't have much negotiating power.
05-05-18, 05:00 AM
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Thanks for the input.
I did some reading and I agree that I won't be able to negotiate on the price. And I might keep the warranty since piece of mind for 3 years worth $1400. Especially if you paying $30K.
And I really want that car since it has everything that I want.
I won't be able to get there by next Saturday so I am actually afraid they might sell the car.
What are my options so they hold the car for me? I have no problems giving them my credit card so they charge a deposit.
My question is , will that guarantee they won't sell the car?
Also about the trade in.
The bbk values it at around 3K trade in value if in good condition. Let's assume my car needs some work worth $1000.
I tried their website to estimate a trade value, but the answer was that an inspection would be required.
Is it theoretically possible to negotiate on the value of the trade in over the phone? I would take $1500.
My point is they are going to make around $5000-6000 on a car I am buying and they know they would get $500 for my car at an auction.
So their worst case is they would lose $1000 on the trade in a worst case scenario. Still they should do fine an the deal.
If I make this buying my trade in at $1500 with no inspection as a condition of the deal - can they go for it? And more importantly, will they keep that promise when I drive there.
My relatives live in the area and they can come down to the dealership to test drive the car. Should I get them involved? I figured if there is something wrong with the car - the warranty will take care of that. They can test how it drives, but I am not sure that information will help me much. They might not like something which I might not care about.
As I said, there are not many cars for sale that have all this options, plus the carfax is clean with all the services done and the colors are exactly what we wanted.
So I am going to buy it anyway.
Again, any advise is welcome.
I did some reading and I agree that I won't be able to negotiate on the price. And I might keep the warranty since piece of mind for 3 years worth $1400. Especially if you paying $30K.
And I really want that car since it has everything that I want.
I won't be able to get there by next Saturday so I am actually afraid they might sell the car.
What are my options so they hold the car for me? I have no problems giving them my credit card so they charge a deposit.
My question is , will that guarantee they won't sell the car?
Also about the trade in.
The bbk values it at around 3K trade in value if in good condition. Let's assume my car needs some work worth $1000.
I tried their website to estimate a trade value, but the answer was that an inspection would be required.
Is it theoretically possible to negotiate on the value of the trade in over the phone? I would take $1500.
My point is they are going to make around $5000-6000 on a car I am buying and they know they would get $500 for my car at an auction.
So their worst case is they would lose $1000 on the trade in a worst case scenario. Still they should do fine an the deal.
If I make this buying my trade in at $1500 with no inspection as a condition of the deal - can they go for it? And more importantly, will they keep that promise when I drive there.
My relatives live in the area and they can come down to the dealership to test drive the car. Should I get them involved? I figured if there is something wrong with the car - the warranty will take care of that. They can test how it drives, but I am not sure that information will help me much. They might not like something which I might not care about.
As I said, there are not many cars for sale that have all this options, plus the carfax is clean with all the services done and the colors are exactly what we wanted.
So I am going to buy it anyway.
Again, any advise is welcome.
Last edited by Banbuk77; 05-05-18 at 05:22 AM.
05-05-18, 08:43 AM
#5
The internet has enabled an astounding increase in the number of views that a Pre Owned
car gets. What was limited to walk-ins and Sunday Papers is now literally nation (world?) wide.
Because the filtering works so well, the age old technique of pricing with lots of room to move
does not work because no one clicks or calls on the top price car. We all want the advantage
of seeing cars that meet our price and needs but then want the old fashioned benefit of 10% off!
When you are there in person committed to the car, the dealer can commit to you. When you
seek to commit the dealer with a deposit you are not really committed yourself. He misses the
warm body kicking your tires and when you show up later and discover the car had been smoked in,
you want your deposit back right? Dealers are not in the business of collecting and refunding
deposits.
car gets. What was limited to walk-ins and Sunday Papers is now literally nation (world?) wide.
Because the filtering works so well, the age old technique of pricing with lots of room to move
does not work because no one clicks or calls on the top price car. We all want the advantage
of seeing cars that meet our price and needs but then want the old fashioned benefit of 10% off!
When you are there in person committed to the car, the dealer can commit to you. When you
seek to commit the dealer with a deposit you are not really committed yourself. He misses the
warm body kicking your tires and when you show up later and discover the car had been smoked in,
you want your deposit back right? Dealers are not in the business of collecting and refunding
deposits.
05-05-18, 09:35 AM
#6
I believe you can negotiate pricing via email. I did this with several dealers for my son when he bought a Forester last fall. Did not call until the dealer with the best deal was determined. It is possible if you call first, the dealer can detect how strong and confident you are in negotiations and get the better of you. In an email you tell the dealer you are ready to buy but since you are 500 miles away, you want to establish best price before you make the effort to get the car. As said above, don't expect thousands off the asking price.
Also, as said, don't expect much for your car. When I bought my wife's 13 ES300h, the Lexus dealer offered $3,500 for her car, which I ended up selling on Craigslist for $9,600. They might quote a trade price over the phone, but it will probably be just a discount you would have received off the RX?
Having said that, an RX is a high volume vehicle and I would expect you could find one closer in a relatively short period of time.
Also, as said, don't expect much for your car. When I bought my wife's 13 ES300h, the Lexus dealer offered $3,500 for her car, which I ended up selling on Craigslist for $9,600. They might quote a trade price over the phone, but it will probably be just a discount you would have received off the RX?
Having said that, an RX is a high volume vehicle and I would expect you could find one closer in a relatively short period of time.
05-06-18, 04:27 AM
#7
Pole Position
I do think if you're going to give them a deposit and experess that you're serious about the car they may negotiate your trade in over the phone, because they just won't care about the trade. It's a throw away part of the deal. Like let's say you're paying full price for that Lexus, well they have some wiggle room, they may be able to give you $1,500 for your trade simply because they're making four or five grand off of the Lexus (when you pay full price). Yeah they may try to take advantage of you when you get there and offer you only $500 (a **** move), but you can hold your ground and see where it gets you.
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05-06-18, 05:38 AM
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I do think if you're going to give them a deposit and experess that you're serious about the car they may negotiate your trade in over the phone, because they just won't care about the trade. It's a throw away part of the deal. Like let's say you're paying full price for that Lexus, well they have some wiggle room, they may be able to give you $1,500 for your trade simply because they're making four or five grand off of the Lexus (when you pay full price). Yeah they may try to take advantage of you when you get there and offer you only $500 (a **** move), but you can hold your ground and see where it gets you.
But now we have another complication. They were working with a company that would take my trade in to establish the price and turns out my carfax report list structural damage. The only accident I had was when I was pulling out of a parking space in the supermarket (backing out) and forgot about a concrete column. So I hit that column with the front wheel and ripped out the headlight and damaged bumper a little. Total cost to fix the car was $1700. How a structural damage can result from such an accident is beyond me. So I called geico and got the damage estimate report. It mention word 'structural' 3 times but in a legal mumbo jumbo section.
I already contacted carfax but I doubt they will correct it by next Friday. So that lowers the value of my car from $3800 to $2800.
Kids, always check your carfax report when you start thinking about selling a car. So you have time to correct it and wont' be surprised when you got to a dealer and he offers you thousands less for you car.
Anyway, I emailed the agent the damage report and they will give me the trade in price on Monday. But I agree, there is always a chance they might negate on that so I am going to put the car for sale on Craigslist. This way I won't have to drive 10 hours only to be told they are not taking the car. Saves me a day as well.
05-06-18, 05:57 AM
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I believe you can negotiate pricing via email. I did this with several dealers for my son when he bought a Forester last fall. Did not call until the dealer with the best deal was determined. It is possible if you call first, the dealer can detect how strong and confident you are in negotiations and get the better of you. In an email you tell the dealer you are ready to buy but since you are 500 miles away, you want to establish best price before you make the effort to get the car. As said above, don't expect thousands off the asking price.
Also, as said, don't expect much for your car. When I bought my wife's 13 ES300h, the Lexus dealer offered $3,500 for her car, which I ended up selling on Craigslist for $9,600. They might quote a trade price over the phone, but it will probably be just a discount you would have received off the RX?
Having said that, an RX is a high volume vehicle and I would expect you could find one closer in a relatively short period of time.
Also, as said, don't expect much for your car. When I bought my wife's 13 ES300h, the Lexus dealer offered $3,500 for her car, which I ended up selling on Craigslist for $9,600. They might quote a trade price over the phone, but it will probably be just a discount you would have received off the RX?
Having said that, an RX is a high volume vehicle and I would expect you could find one closer in a relatively short period of time.
The thing is this car has some particular options that I want plus the colors are also what I want. And it has a mileage I want. So another car like this can be for sale maybe in 3 month if not in 6 month. And it might be located 2000 miles from me. So I had to jump on this deal. Actually they called me Saturday morning first because I was trying to price my trade in on their website. So they asked why I did that and I said I am interested in that Lexus. The agent said that they have two options to hold it: either they start processing the financing (loan) or I give them $500 down payment. I indicated that I am going to buy this car (not a good move when you are trying to negotiate a best price, but considering they offered $500 off and they don't have much room to go down , I thought what the heck). When I expressed a concern they might sell the car while we are going back and forth with the trade in (sending her pictures of the car,documents, etc) the Lexus gets sold - she assured me that it is already mine.
I wanted to start the financing application, but she was busy and got back to me only before the closing time so I gave her the credit card number. They are closed on Sunday - so she would process the down payment first thing on Monday.
I read that Lexus dealerships are one of the best so I am kind of trust them.
05-06-18, 10:14 AM
#10
I found a car (2013 RX350) at a Lexus Dealership that has all the options I want. I am ready to buy it, but the price seems to be a little high to me.
I used the same dealership website to get a trade in value for a car with the same options and ideal condition and they appraise it at $22K. Same with KBB.com.
But the same car is selling for $28K (Certified).
I have several question about buying process:
1. How much can I realistically expect them to go down assuming the paid $22K for the car?
2. Do Lexus dealerships usually value trade ins? If their website says $22K trade in value, can they pay more? Or if the vehicle have some minor cosmetic imperfections - will they try to knock the trade in price down? How much?
3. Also, I don't expect to drive much (2000 miles a year) so I won't enjoy full benefit of the warranty. Is it possible to exclude the warranty? If yes, then how much should affect the selling price?
The car is 500 miles from me so I am not sure how I should even proceed with this. Should I maybe call them and negotiate on the price over the phone?
4. My current car is a piece of junk. 2002 Bonneville that really starting to show its age (sunroof is leaking, tires need replacing, dents and scratches all over). 140K miles. But drives very good though. The kbb says it worth around $3-4K, but with all the issues it has - I would be happy to get $2000 for it. Can they refuse to take it? Or can they offer some ridiculous offer (like $500)? I think I can get that much from a junk yard .
I am asking because I would rather fly there , but if they are going to take my junk and give me a fair price for it ($2K) - I would gladly drive there.
Any advise would be appreciated.
I used the same dealership website to get a trade in value for a car with the same options and ideal condition and they appraise it at $22K. Same with KBB.com.
But the same car is selling for $28K (Certified).
I have several question about buying process:
1. How much can I realistically expect them to go down assuming the paid $22K for the car?
2. Do Lexus dealerships usually value trade ins? If their website says $22K trade in value, can they pay more? Or if the vehicle have some minor cosmetic imperfections - will they try to knock the trade in price down? How much?
3. Also, I don't expect to drive much (2000 miles a year) so I won't enjoy full benefit of the warranty. Is it possible to exclude the warranty? If yes, then how much should affect the selling price?
The car is 500 miles from me so I am not sure how I should even proceed with this. Should I maybe call them and negotiate on the price over the phone?
4. My current car is a piece of junk. 2002 Bonneville that really starting to show its age (sunroof is leaking, tires need replacing, dents and scratches all over). 140K miles. But drives very good though. The kbb says it worth around $3-4K, but with all the issues it has - I would be happy to get $2000 for it. Can they refuse to take it? Or can they offer some ridiculous offer (like $500)? I think I can get that much from a junk yard .
I am asking because I would rather fly there , but if they are going to take my junk and give me a fair price for it ($2K) - I would gladly drive there.
Any advise would be appreciated.
That is not the only nice 2013 RX within 500 miles of you. If you say the price is Not want you want to pay. And the CPO is not important. Look at other options and Dealers. Even Non Lexus. But make sure you do History research on the RX and get it checked out 1st.
05-06-18, 02:08 PM
#11
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"she assured me that it is already mine": meaningless, anything on the phone never happened ("I don't remember saying that"). Even if she admits it, she's not the corporation. No offer, promise, etc. made on the phone has any legal effect.
Let's see if I understand.
You're going to negotiate a deal on the phone involving 2 cars, in which you know nothing about the car you're buying (except what he tells you), and he knows nothing about your car (except what you tell him).
1. he doesn't believe you, and will be "disappointed" when he sees your car - you won't get the trade-in he offered.
2. he has an enormous incentive to lie about his car.
You and the salesman are a sheep and a wolf discussing dinner.
Let's see if I understand.
You're going to negotiate a deal on the phone involving 2 cars, in which you know nothing about the car you're buying (except what he tells you), and he knows nothing about your car (except what you tell him).
1. he doesn't believe you, and will be "disappointed" when he sees your car - you won't get the trade-in he offered.
2. he has an enormous incentive to lie about his car.
You and the salesman are a sheep and a wolf discussing dinner.
I also keep in mind that my trade in car in such a shape they might refuse it. Even after I send them pictures, and they have a carfax report. So they seem to be serious. So I posted it for sale at Craigslist. I will know what they are offering for it on Monday and hopefully I have some offers thru the Craigslist that are above $1000. So if I am able to sell it locally for several hundreds less than they will estimate its value - I will do this. If not, my relatives live in the area so I might leave it with them so they would sell it. Again, we are talking hundreds of dollars here, not thousand.
As for the Lexus, I am buying.
Again, car with the options this one has are very rare kind. I am taking a risk here. I think it is a very small risk.
I never bought a CPO car before, so I am really interested as to what might go wrong here. It is CPO. So if anything is wrong with it - should not they fix it? The carfax report is clean.
Would they sell a CPO car if there is something obviously wrong with it? I am coming from GM cars and I don't know much about how Lexus should drive.
I am still going to test drive it first and will bring it to a mechanic as well. So worst case - I will walk away. Or drive away.
05-06-18, 03:41 PM
#12
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if you only want $1500 for the trade in they're GOING to do it i'd say. so if they want $28K and you want $1.5K for yours, you just go there with check for $26.5K (or maybe less if you want to haggle) and put any taxes/etc on a credit card maybe?
bottom line, you're likely going to have to go there to close the deal.
having your relatives test drive the car though is a good idea, and maybe have them take it to a trusted mechanic!
bottom line, you're likely going to have to go there to close the deal.
having your relatives test drive the car though is a good idea, and maybe have them take it to a trusted mechanic!
05-06-18, 04:05 PM
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if you only want $1500 for the trade in they're GOING to do it i'd say. so if they want $28K and you want $1.5K for yours, you just go there with check for $26.5K (or maybe less if you want to haggle) and put any taxes/etc on a credit card maybe?
bottom line, you're likely going to have to go there to close the deal.
having your relatives test drive the car though is a good idea, and maybe have them take it to a trusted mechanic!
bottom line, you're likely going to have to go there to close the deal.
having your relatives test drive the car though is a good idea, and maybe have them take it to a trusted mechanic!
As for mechanic, I am asking again: if there is something wrong with it - won't they have to fix it under the warranty?
The only benefit I see is if a mechanic sees the car say on Tuesday - they will have enough time to check/fix the issue before I arrive there.
That is another reason I want to sell my car locally and fly there. This way I will be there Friday morning and could do the test drive/mechanic routine myself.
Will they be able to fix a problem in a day (Saturday)? As I said, I am not going to walk away unless the car is possessed or something.
05-07-18, 11:04 AM
#14
Lexus Test Driver
It sounds to me like you're still new to car buying(judging by the jump from a 2002 Bonneville to a 2013 RX). The number 1 thing to avoid is emotion. Do not become attached to this RX.
If it has issues, you need to run from it. I don't care if they can fix it. If they put it on the lot knowing about the issues, I don't want to deal with them. I just went through a similar process last year with my truck(although it wasn't my first time). I almost committed to 3 different trucks before that because of my emotional attachment to them. I would have regretted buying them(I only skipped the first one because it was sold out from under me, but when I finally saw it in person I saw that it had damage to the driver's door that was hidden in the photos).
I kept searching and eventually found the truck that was perfect for me. Patience is important. Vehicles are a big purchase, and most people keep them for at least 2-3 years....you want to enjoy that time.
I can't tell you if you should trust your relative's opinion. I don't know him or her. Some people are good at identifying issues and others suck.
I can't tell you if it would be fixable in a day. Saturday is hard, that's when a lot of people take their vehicles in for service. If it's a burnt out headlight? Probably. Timing belt needs replacement? No way.
If it has issues, you need to run from it. I don't care if they can fix it. If they put it on the lot knowing about the issues, I don't want to deal with them. I just went through a similar process last year with my truck(although it wasn't my first time). I almost committed to 3 different trucks before that because of my emotional attachment to them. I would have regretted buying them(I only skipped the first one because it was sold out from under me, but when I finally saw it in person I saw that it had damage to the driver's door that was hidden in the photos).
I kept searching and eventually found the truck that was perfect for me. Patience is important. Vehicles are a big purchase, and most people keep them for at least 2-3 years....you want to enjoy that time.
I can't tell you if you should trust your relative's opinion. I don't know him or her. Some people are good at identifying issues and others suck.
I can't tell you if it would be fixable in a day. Saturday is hard, that's when a lot of people take their vehicles in for service. If it's a burnt out headlight? Probably. Timing belt needs replacement? No way.
05-07-18, 12:03 PM
#15
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As for mechanic, I am asking again: if there is something wrong with it - won't they have to fix it under the warranty?
The only benefit I see is if a mechanic sees the car say on Tuesday - they will have enough time to check/fix the issue before I arrive there.
That is another reason I want to sell my car locally and fly there. This way I will be there Friday morning and could do the test drive/mechanic routine myself.
Will they be able to fix a problem in a day (Saturday)?
As I said, I am not going to walk away unless the car is possessed or something.
what if it has a huge scratch or dent on it but drives fine? clearly not 'possessed' but it's something.