If you like crossover SUVs and car-based AWD, here is who you should thank (AMC)
05-05-18, 03:10 PM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
The 90s-vintage Explorer was a body-on-frame, truck-based SUV, whose mechanicals were taken from the Ford Ranger pickup. That type of SUV, while not extinct, is now limited to just GM, Ford, and only a couple of other automakers.
05-05-18, 03:10 PM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
And I think it’s flawed. Nothing was blurred when the first RAV4 arrived. It looked like a small baby SUV. The RAV4 was more important.
05-05-18, 03:18 PM
#18
Right, first and second generations. I said third generation (Grand) Vitara. This was introduced in 2005 and ran until 2017 in some countries. The third gen went with unibody construction that replaced the ladder-frame. Fourth generation which started in 2015 has retained a unibody.
05-05-18, 03:24 PM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
The RAV-4, looks-wise, wasn't much different from the two-box Suzuki Sidekick/Chevy-Geo Tracker ten years earlier, in the late 1980s. Its main difference, of course, was in the frame and mechanicals. I do agree, however, that the 90s-vintage Outback/RAV-4/CR-Vs were more important in the long-term, since the market in the 1980s for compact and subcompact SUVs/CUVs was, at that time, still a niche.
05-05-18, 03:57 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
BOF is one reason why the Suzukis were so good off-road...almost in the same league as the Jeep Wrangler. Their truck-like frame, though, combined with the very stiff suspension and light weight, made them very unpleasant on the highway....they shimmied, shook, and bounced incessantly. The first Geo Tracker I test-drove (a rebadged Sidekick), even with the tires at normal PSI, felt almost like I was sitting on a rocking-horse LOL.
05-05-18, 03:59 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
The RAV-4, looks-wise, wasn't much different from the two-box Suzuki Sidekick/Chevy-Geo Tracker ten years earlier, in the late 1980s. Its main difference, of course, was in the frame and mechanicals. I do agree, however, that the 90s-vintage Outback/RAV-4/CR-Vs were more important in the long-term, since the market in the 1980s for compact and subcompact SUVs/CUVs was, at that time, still a niche.
05-05-18, 04:09 PM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I get what you are saying about the AMC Eagle. It was RWD based and was dedicated to its purpose from the platform it was on. It was unibody and was somewhat the first cross over. But hardly influential in any way. The RAV4 on the other hand was built off Toyota’s existing car platform and was FWD and was totally different and unique. RAV4 was quite influential.
At the time.....no, I agree, the Eagle was not influential, except to Audi and Suzuki engineers and designers, who clearly saw the ultimate potential of the easy-to-use, go-anywhere-on-any-surface-at-anytime AWD system and the ingenious (for that era) viscous-silicone center differential. But, no, the Eagle clearly had its faults, a number of which were simply connected to the AMC nameplate itself, which had had a reputation for sub-standard quality for years, though, by the late 1970s, Chrysler, IMO, except for their durable in-line sixes, was even worse.
My point, though, was that the Eagle was 15 years ahead of its time. Its true worth would not be seen until the mid-1990s.
05-07-18, 02:16 PM
#24
Lexus Champion
And once the demand seemed there, car makers figured out that they could make vehicles that looked like trucks on the outside, but that drove like cars--increasing demand even more.
So it is completely accurate to give Explorer credit for SUV popularity.
05-07-18, 02:22 PM
#25
Lexus Champion
At the time.....no, I agree, the Eagle was not influential, except to Audi and Suzuki engineers and designers, who clearly saw the ultimate potential of the easy-to-use, go-anywhere-on-any-surface-at-anytime AWD system and the ingenious (for that era) viscous-silicone center differential. But, no, the Eagle clearly had its faults, a number of which were simply connected to the AMC nameplate itself, which had had a reputation for sub-standard quality for years, though, by the late 1970s, Chrysler, IMO, except for their durable in-line sixes, was even worse.
My point, though, was that the Eagle was 15 years ahead of its time. Its true worth would not be seen until the mid-1990s.
My point, though, was that the Eagle was 15 years ahead of its time. Its true worth would not be seen until the mid-1990s.
05-08-18, 07:59 PM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
But the "demand" didn't have anything to do with whether the vehicle was unibody or body on frame (most people have no idea what that means). The Ford Explorer really enhanced the customer demand of an SUV (or whatever the heck you want to call it) that was more family and consumer friendly on the inside--not having the look or feel of a truck inside the cabin, even though it may have been based on a truck. Jeep tried it with the Wagoneer in the 80s, but the idea really took off with the Explorer. Remember that regulations on "light trucks" were different than on cars, including MPG requirements.
And once the demand seemed there, car makers figured out that they could make vehicles that looked like trucks on the outside, but that drove like cars--increasing demand even more.
So it is completely accurate to give Explorer credit for SUV popularity.
And once the demand seemed there, car makers figured out that they could make vehicles that looked like trucks on the outside, but that drove like cars--increasing demand even more.
So it is completely accurate to give Explorer credit for SUV popularity.
As is common, its not the person who pioneered a product or segment of a market that always gets the credit for causing it to really take off, its the person that perfected that product. Great example of this is Apple and the iPod, iTunes, iPhone, etc. Apple didn't invent any of those things as products, the portable music player, MP3 downloadable music, a smart phone in the modern sense, but they perfected the product for the market and caused it to take off.
05-08-18, 08:04 PM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
^^^ great posts 
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