dicer

With all the problems that ohc engines have with failed chain components, maybe belts were the better option? Ideas?

05ls430518

iTrader: (1)

I personally like timing chains there life expectancy is longer and when there about to go bad they start making noise giving you plenty of warning they are gonna break vs belts that just break with 0 indication.

Aron9000

IMO if the manufacturers didn't cheap out on the chain design/components, you wouldn't have failures. A lot of timing chain failures can be related to plastic components in the timing set getting brittle with age and breaking. Spec metal parts and spend $0.50 more a car, you don't have that type of problem.

Johnhav430

I won't reach the point, because I don't care anymore, but my dilemma was going to be, when my 1998 Maxima gets a water pump replacement, and it has a chain, should I, or should I not replace the guides? this was one of those questions such as, "should I use premium fuel?" "Is dielectric grease advisable?" "Why did the chicken cross the road?" Meaning two camps who vehemently believe in their position. My brother had a brand new 2007 Frontier which was lemoned for bad guides.

I have never owned a vehicle with a timing belt until the LS430. Many people here DIY the job, but I didn't, and I'm just not setup at home to do it (one car garage, not enough space, LS is daily driver).
So it's kind of a PITA that Toyota recommends this job every 90k or 9 yrs. Lexus gets $1,800, indies get about $750 to $900. I can't see any benefit other than it's an old design.

My money is on chains, or OHV.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

the industry has pretty much moved to timing chains

all manufacturers really care about is the car lasting past the warranty, not forever

mmarshall

I don't necessarily agree wth that. There are many cases of warranties officially being extended past the normal factory deadlines when components have shown an earlier-than-expected malfunction or failure rate. Examples include former Subaru non-turbo head-gaskets/rear wheel bearings, Nissan CVTs, and the dual-clutch transmissions on some small Ford products....but there are many more. Manufacturers also, on occasion, voluntarily cover (or partly-cover) post-warranty repairs simply out of desire to keep their customers happy...but, of course, there s no guarantee on that.

Johnhav430

My buddy is like me, we should have been FBI special agents. He got his wife's NX200t oil changed at the dealer. So he happened to have glanced at the sticker they put on the windshield, and asked me what I thought because it said 5,000 miles from when he got it. He was pretty sure the Lexus recommendation was 10k, and he does 7,500. Does he think they put conventional oil in his car, and charged him for synthetic, i.e. the 5k sticker?

I said unlikely, but broken process, where the tech sticks the 5k sticker on the 2001 LS430 that paid $130 for the conventional oil change, and he or she uses the same sticker on your $130 synthetic change, and they just don't care. That was my .02. He called the dealer and they said what I did, but left out the don't care part.

You bet the Lexus dealer is a profit center...$1800 for a timing belt....

mmarshall

Yes, they were cheaper to produce than chains, but cost was not the only reason. This is not necessarily the case today, but at the time, belts were one of the few reasonably cost-effective ways to make engines run quieter and smoother.....at a time when many customers were complaining about engine noise. The downsides, of course, were lack of long-term durability, the need for periodic replacement (sometimes, with transverse-mounted engines, involving substantial labor and expense), and the prospect of getting stranded if the belt broke. It was even worse if it was an interference engine (where valves and pistons could contact each other if the belt broke) and major engine damage was involved.

mmarshall

It wasn't just OHC's. Even some older, more traditional push-rod engines had problems. One example was when Pontiac used vinyl/plastic timing gears that would fail, shred, and spew a bunch of small plastic chips into the oiling system, plugging up passages......the results of that were obvious.

JDR76

Service on the NX200t is every 5k miles. Oil changes are every 10k. So every other service, per the service guide, is an oil change. They put 5k miles on it because the next service is in 5k miles...it just doesn't include the oil change.

Johnhav430

I do believe you are absolutely correct on the sticker. If it were me, they won't see the car for about 120k. lol

So, on a 2017 car, what is it they actually need, every 5k? I find that to be a throwback to the olden days, arguably better.

jadu

iTrader: (42)

belts are cheap, and in both you still gotta change the tensioners, cam seals and front main seal. same same

riredale

Belts were the cheaper design method.

I will never buy another belt car because I don't want to pay for another belt replacement.

You can buy a car with cheap spark plugs and replace them several times at considerable expense, or buy a car with expensive plugs that last for 120K miles.

SW17LS

One benefit is noise and vibration. Have you driven an LS460? Thats a good example, LS430 has a belt, LS460 has a chain. The LS460 is a little louder at idle, and the engine has a little less of that "wow, is it running?" thing, its a little less buttery all through the rev band. Its subtle, but its there.

Is that tradeoff worth not spending $1,000 every 90k miles? Probably. Would I prefer my LS460 idle and run as smoothly as the LS430? Yes.

Honda still sticks to belts in a lot of applications supposedly for this reason.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

Honda K series engines havent been belts since early 2000s