Johnny Mayday

I haven't really thought about Acura as a carmaker for a long time... Other than the NSX, there's nothing in it's lineup that excites me. And if I had the money, I wouldn't buy that either. So I thought it was funny to see that even the GM of the company doesn't think comparing it to Lexus makes any sense. Check out Patrick's post for all the details.

mmarshall

That may be true for today, since Acura, except for the MDX, has deteriorated to a also-ran status, at least in the U.S. But one must also remember that Lexus (or Infiniti) might not even exist today in the U.S. If it wasn't for the success that the Acura franchises had when they first opened in 1986. The success of Acura, in the late 1980s, spurred Toyota and Nissan to follow through on plans for their own respective upmarket divisions, which opened in the U.S. for the 1990 model year.

patgilm

oldcajun

I had one of the original Acura Legends when they first came out. Acura was the model for an upscale division for a mainstream Japanese company and thus paved the way for Lexus and Infiniti. The original plan for Acura was to provide a way for the thousands of Honda owners to move up without leaving Honda, They never expected to convert existing Mercedes or BMW customers, just to prevent Honda customers from moving up to them. For a while they were very successful but they lost their original focus. Acura has never had a real LS competitor and has had to follow Honda in advanced tech. The only real unique Acura tech was the SH-AWD but they never seem to capitalize on it the way Audi did withQuattro.

The 2019 RDX seems to be a new Acura bringing hopes for better products across the line. A new twin turbo V-6 has been rumored for MDX and TLX. Not following Lexus, but maybe Audi?

Vladi

NSX is not a fail, Acura sales network is. If NSX carried a BMW badge it would sell 250 each month. Acura has relegated itself to discount luxury or step above Honda brand cause it was easier for them to pull that off. They never had a Japan support to make anything different, they've only worked with what they have been given. Acura simply cannot push a $150K vehicle with what they have now it terms of management and infrastructure. It's impossible. Perfect scenario would have been a complete philosophy and product shake up with NSX as crowning experience but instead NSX will be that first step in direction change. That's all good too except NSX will not sell as R8 in that case. They have to start from somewhere and so far NSX, new RDX roll out has been promising in terms of Acura autonomy in Honda. Finally Acura USA has grip on it's steering wheel. Let's see what happens from now on.

With RDX they have finally approached the user technology portion they were lagging so bad in premium segment. They have recognized that infotainment and cockpit technology is what sets apart economy brand from premium brand in today's business just like leather power seats and wood veneer were synonym for luxury some 20 years ago. Finally their interior design has some sort of premium direction instead of typical Honda upgrade and so on.

Acura was bashed for being FWD and V6 but that was never the real-real problem. It was always their understanding what makes contemporary premium brand and how they can get that from Honda Japan. Very complicated stuff. Ten years ago they go on to debut very sophisticated SH-AWD arguably the best in business (Mitsu in my opinion) but adoption rate across the range never ever happens. Only top of the range TL got the real SH-AWD while all others got watered down version after being offered in FWD first then AWD. Complete mess. With Hybrid SH-AWD things are getting better as Honda Japan has learned lesson apparently after listening to Acura USA ***** too much. Proof they are already improving is SH-AWD in new RDX which can send power to the rear wheels whenever it wants to even if fronts have the full grip. That's how you do it.

And as much as Lexus fans were kicking' Acura's butt for being V6 only karma will be karma and Acura will soon debut V6 Turbo across the full range while Lexus is still kickin that 15 year old gold standard of 3.5 NA which got updated for 2016 and will most likely be updated with Mazda Skyactive patents twist to save some gas in the future and that they will call Dynamic Force too. Same thing they did with "new" 2.0 engines which are current Mazda Skyactive-G engines with Toyota twist. Unless new ES has mid cycle turbo engine change that 3.5 will be 21 years old by the end of the model cycle.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

a well established company shouldnt be copying, thats a lazy strategy and a recipe for disappointment

Johnny Mayday

That's a pretty good point... Let someone else test the waters.

Sulu

You won't be surprised but I cannot agree. The difference between the time that Acura was introduced (1986), and Lexus and Infiniti were introduced (1989) is too short for Lexus and Infiniti to have copied Acura.

We are all familiar with the fact that work on the Lexus brand began in the early 1980s. This would have overlapped with Honda's planning for Acura.

Mazda's stillborn plan to introduce its upscale Amati brand (early 1990s) may have been influenced somewhat by Acura but only if no new new, Amati brand-specific vehicles were planned (only re-badging of of already-in-production or already-planned Mazda vehicles).

It typically takes 5 years to bring a new car to market. To plan a new brand, with all-new, brand-specific vehicles, would take longer, so a mere 3-year difference is coincidence. Even 5 years difference could still be considered coincidence (a brand's new car would enter the planning stage when the car it is supposedly copying has only just been introduced to the market).

mmarshall

The Mazda Millenia, particularly with the Miller-cycle engine in the upmarket S version, was originally designed to be the first Amati-badged product...though I was not impressed with either its driving-refinement or build-quality compared to its rivals. When the Ford managers pulled the plug on the Amati division, the Millenia ended up being sold alongside the Mazda 929 as one of two sedan flagships until the 929 was dropped..

No problem. As long as one is polite (as you usually are with me), and doesn't toss any stones, I don't mind at all if someone disagrees or presents a different credible opinion. It is true that it usually takes several years to design and perfect a new vehicle or establish a new division....although in the case of the original Lexus LS400 and ES250, they were working right off the Japanese-market Celsior and the American market Camry, so a lot of the development work was already done for them. But common sense itself would also suggest that Toyota was also carefully watching what was going on with Acura, particularly with the success of the original Legend (itself based on the Honda Legend sold overseas), before giving the final go-ahead with the vast effort needed to establish the new division in North America.

This article by U.S. News, BTW, basically agrees with me.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/...he-brands-2016

Which is the Better Luxury Brand?

Acura is Honda’s luxury brand and Lexus is Toyota’s equivalent. Other automakers have employed similar pursuits, such as Nissan’s luxury division, Infiniti, and the new Genesis brand by Hyundai.

The scheme is a perfect way for automakers to expand product lines in a cost-effective manner and appeal to various markets. It’s a concept that U.S. automakers have utilized for many years. General Motors found success by offering multiple brands, ranging from Spartan to ultra-luxury, all built on a limited number of platforms.

Acura was the first Japanese luxury brand. Introduced in the U.S. in 1986, the company set out to market luxury and performance vehicles. Later, Acura branched out to several other countries. Initially, Acura offered the compact Integra and the larger Legend. In 1990, Acura premiered the NSX as a practical alternative to European sports cars. By 2000, the company was expanding the lineup and included its first SUV offering, the MDX.

Toyota was inspired by Honda’s Acura to introduce its own competing luxury brand, Lexus. Lexus began in 1989 with the release of the full-size Lexus LS. The company went on to add other sedans, coupes, convertibles, and SUV models. Today, Lexus is the number-one-selling Japanese luxury automaker. Lexus is marketed in over 70 countries and in 2015, the company sold over 600,000 vehicles worldwide.

Which company makes better vehicles? We looked at the data from U.S. News & World Report's vehicle rankings to find out. Click through to see the results of the competition.

Fizzboy7

The TLX and RDX are a strong sellers in L.A. suburbs, as well as the always solid MDX. Acura just needs to get a handle on the RLX and ILX. Not that far off from being a well-rounded company.

BippuLexus

Its not just the LA burbs. Despite the reviews and how it looks, the Acura TLX has been a strong seller in general compared to the Lexus IS. This has always been the case even back during the Acura TL days.

The Acura TL has averaged pretty strong sales compared to the 2G Lexus IS. <--- Then you add on top the Acura TSX sales during this time as well - Acura made quite a bit of cash.

The Acura TL (2 years old in 2006) sold 20,000+ more units than the 2G Lexus IS first model release in 2006.
Also by the 4G Acura TL, the 4G TL still managed to average comparable sales numbers to the 2G Lexus IS and even beating the 2G Lexus IS until 2013 (when it lost in sales numbers)
^^^^ I think this is an important factor: The 4G TL was an ugly and horrible car, yet, it was able to top 2G Lexus IS sales.

Imagine if Acura actually made the 4G TL a good car - they would have totally destroyed the competition in sales. Acura totally missed the boat on this one - similarity - they missed the boat on a RDX Turbo Acura TSX back in 2009 as well.

mmarshall

One positive note for Acura is that they are finally ridding themselves of those parrot-beak grilles....they were a hamper on sales for all but the ever-popular MDX.

S2000toIS350

Kira X

iTrader: (24)

I thought Acura made awesome cars until they moved over to the "beak" front grilles. They were all good looking cars until that point and seemed to sell well. Their line up since then has seemed boring outside of the overpriced NSX. The MDX still sells really well and I see them everywhere, but the rest of the cars aren't as common around here.

Our local Acura dealership is a joke. It's not much nicer than the Honda dealership. It was pretty disappointing looking at their cars with the exception of the bright red NSX in the middle of the showroom floor.

UDel

TLX's sell pretty well, I see them everywhere, it has been beating the IS for the past couple months in sales. My parents just got a TLX and it is pretty nice, dad said he was getting over 35mpg on a long trip and said was very comfortable, pretty much all highway, which is amazing for a 6 cylinder with AWD, TLX is really the only sporty 6 cylinder in its class, at least compared to the Germans, Americans, British that is still reasonably priced.