2019 bmw x5
06-13-18, 07:35 AM
#46
Man you all are a bunch of snobs saying the RX isn't a "real" luxury car because it shares its chassis with a Toyota Camry. Go look at a Mercedes E-class, they are sold as taxi's in Germany, same car, vinyl interior(hell that still might be standard in US spec cars), sub 150hp diesel engine, older ones had manual gearboxes. Even going back before the E-class to the late 70's/early 80's W123 sedan, the infamous "240D" diesel Benz. Those were taxi's in Germany, they sold the same damn car with the same damn engine here in America for a huge markup because we are so status obessed and they could get away with it. Same thing with Cadillac and Lincoln(well post suicide door days) back in the 60's/70's, granted they had unique engines, but the frame/suspension design was the same on an Impala as a Deville, same on a Thunderbird as Mark V.
06-13-18, 07:43 AM
#47
drives cars
I said the RX is a luxury vehicle. While the IS is a luxury vehicle technically, I think it's more of a sporty car.
Also my friend has an Outback (basically same as Legacy on the inside), and while fine, it's not luxurious by any stretch.
Also my friend has an Outback (basically same as Legacy on the inside), and while fine, it's not luxurious by any stretch.
06-13-18, 08:41 AM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
I agree with the sentiment that a "Lexus" should not be a car that shares a platform and layout and engine and powertrain with a Toyota model. So, would I prefer to see the ES on a proper RWD platform? Yes. Same for the RX, and all the other FWD Lexus models.
To say "its not a luxury car" however is a little strong.
And anybody who has been in a Subaru and even the cheapest Lexus can plainly tell that the Lexus is a more premium product. Its just obvious.
To say "its not a luxury car" however is a little strong.
And anybody who has been in a Subaru and even the cheapest Lexus can plainly tell that the Lexus is a more premium product. Its just obvious.
06-13-18, 11:53 AM
#50
drives cars
I mean there's such a spectrum of different luxury vehicles, from brands like Audi and Lexus up to those like Porsche all the way to Rolls Royce, that maybe there should be some distinction among them. However, I think "luxury" is usually just a way to say it's somewhere above mainstream in terms of quality.
I think this is pretty far off topic though.
I think this is pretty far off topic though.
06-13-18, 12:05 PM
#51
I mean there's such a spectrum of different luxury vehicles, from brands like Audi and Lexus up to those like Porsche all the way to Rolls Royce, that maybe there should be some distinction among them. However, I think "luxury" is usually just a way to say it's somewhere above mainstream in terms of quality.
I think this is pretty far off topic though.
I think this is pretty far off topic though.
But if you take a disposable platform, you can wrap it with fancy looking trim to mask its plebeian underpinnings and make it imitate luxury, but underneath the skin its still a turd, and no matter how much you polish it, the RX will never ride with the same authority as the X5 .
06-13-18, 04:59 PM
#52
Lexus Champion
Well, you can take what is a premium platform, and build a luxury or a sport car on top of it. With today's tech, premium platforms allow to build a car that can have both - luxury and sport characteristics.
But if you take a disposable platform, you can wrap it with fancy looking trim to mask its plebeian underpinnings and make it imitate luxury, but underneath the skin its still a turd, and no matter how much you polish it, the RX will never ride with the same authority as the X5 .
But if you take a disposable platform, you can wrap it with fancy looking trim to mask its plebeian underpinnings and make it imitate luxury, but underneath the skin its still a turd, and no matter how much you polish it, the RX will never ride with the same authority as the X5 .
Last edited by Sulu; 06-14-18 at 06:25 AM.
06-13-18, 09:42 PM
#53
Styling is well done IMO, still has the familiar BMW look but modernized.
Still no receiver hitch, have to get one specially installed at your expense that lowers the ground clearance even more. Raw deal on your new 60K+ SUV. The receiver hitch adds a lot of functionality and practicality.
Spent 3 years with BMW and they have the highest maintenance cost of any brand which is borne out here
https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...y-maddy-martin
I've seen the ROs and they are brutal, like engine replacement on a 2 year old 7 series.
@Och have driven current X5 and RX. Both are great to drive on the road. The X5 has slight handling advantage with less body roll - to be expected, but the RX has better ride (no runflats), better reliability, and better resale.
I like keeping more of my own money on both resale and maintenance and not wasting time in the shop so I'll stay with Lexus.
Still no receiver hitch, have to get one specially installed at your expense that lowers the ground clearance even more. Raw deal on your new 60K+ SUV. The receiver hitch adds a lot of functionality and practicality.
Spent 3 years with BMW and they have the highest maintenance cost of any brand which is borne out here
https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...y-maddy-martin
I've seen the ROs and they are brutal, like engine replacement on a 2 year old 7 series.
@Och have driven current X5 and RX. Both are great to drive on the road. The X5 has slight handling advantage with less body roll - to be expected, but the RX has better ride (no runflats), better reliability, and better resale.
I like keeping more of my own money on both resale and maintenance and not wasting time in the shop so I'll stay with Lexus.
Last edited by Chocolate; 06-13-18 at 09:53 PM.
06-14-18, 04:39 AM
#54
Lexus Test Driver
It has zero aluminum or carbon fiber components. The AWD system is not advanced.
This has significant disadvantages when you compare it to X5 in terms of ride quality, handling, high speed stability, off road prowess etc.
06-14-18, 06:24 AM
#55
Lexus Champion
Define "very basic suspension geometry".
So using aluminum and carbon fiber instantly elevates a "disposable platform" to a "premium platform" -- even if the more-expensive, more-difficult-to-work-with material is not needed?
What mass-produced car uses CF in the platform (defining "platform" as the greasy, unseen, underbits of a vehicle)?
Does swapping out a metal hood for a CF one instantly elevate a cheap economy car to a premium car? Or using CF as a dress-up veneer in a car (in place of wood, for example) instantly elevates a cheap economy car to a premium car?
This has significant disadvantages when you compare it to X5 in terms of ride quality, handling, high speed stability, off road prowess etc.[/QUOTE]
So, "off road prowess" is the mark of a premium vehicle? So, all sedans are not premium vehicles?
06-14-18, 08:06 AM
#56
In your opinion, are all FWD platforms "cheap economy car" platforms? So the BMW X1 is a cheap economy car?
Define "very basic suspension geometry".
So using aluminum and carbon fiber instantly elevates a "disposable platform" to a "premium platform" -- even if the more-expensive, more-difficult-to-work-with material is not needed?
What mass-produced car uses CF in the platform (defining "platform" as the greasy, unseen, underbits of a vehicle)?
Does swapping out a metal hood for a CF one instantly elevate a cheap economy car to a premium car? Or using CF as a dress-up veneer in a car (in place of wood, for example) instantly elevates a cheap economy car to a premium car?
This has significant disadvantages when you compare it to X5 in terms of ride quality, handling, high speed stability, off road prowess etc.
Define "very basic suspension geometry".
So using aluminum and carbon fiber instantly elevates a "disposable platform" to a "premium platform" -- even if the more-expensive, more-difficult-to-work-with material is not needed?
What mass-produced car uses CF in the platform (defining "platform" as the greasy, unseen, underbits of a vehicle)?
Does swapping out a metal hood for a CF one instantly elevate a cheap economy car to a premium car? Or using CF as a dress-up veneer in a car (in place of wood, for example) instantly elevates a cheap economy car to a premium car?
This has significant disadvantages when you compare it to X5 in terms of ride quality, handling, high speed stability, off road prowess etc.
TBH, Mercedes GLA and BMW X1 are both cheap one, really really cheap.
Even base C/GLC, 3/X3 are not on MB and BMW standard.
06-14-18, 08:08 AM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
Please remember when you view my posts below that I have posted many times on how I dislike FWD and won't buy another FWD vehicle and think Lexus should be all RWD. Even with that said, I think the sentiments expressed here are a little over the top.
It all depends on what perspective you're coming from. If you're a consumer in the Rolls Royce, Bentley etc space then certainly NO Lexus and very few BMW or MB models would you consider "luxury".
The X5 is also considerably more expensive than the RX and has a different mission. While I would always choose an X5 over an RX, the RX is what it is and it has its place. Its a quiet, smooth stylish (if its style is your thing) people hauler at a great value, thats what its always been. If you just want to haul people around in comfort at a good value, the RX is actually a better overall vehicle than an X5.
And?
Seriously, I could not possibly care less whatever "advanced materials" are in my vehicle. Couldn't care less. I was a solid, smooth very quiet well built well appointed car. If they made it out of wood, I wouldn't care. I'm not interested in spending 10-15k more on average for a car simply because its made out of "some material" in places that provides no tangible benefit to me.
As I said before, I wouldn't buy an RX because I've moved on in my life to "better" more expensive vehicles, but the RX and ES have their place in the market, and they have many, many happy consumers who buy what to them is a luxury car.
And you pay considerably more for those advantages in the X5. What else is new?
It all depends on what perspective you're coming from. If you're a consumer in the Rolls Royce, Bentley etc space then certainly NO Lexus and very few BMW or MB models would you consider "luxury".
But if you take a disposable platform, you can wrap it with fancy looking trim to mask its plebeian underpinnings and make it imitate luxury, but underneath the skin its still a turd, and no matter how much you polish it, the RX will never ride with the same authority as the X5 .
And?
Seriously, I could not possibly care less whatever "advanced materials" are in my vehicle. Couldn't care less. I was a solid, smooth very quiet well built well appointed car. If they made it out of wood, I wouldn't care. I'm not interested in spending 10-15k more on average for a car simply because its made out of "some material" in places that provides no tangible benefit to me.
As I said before, I wouldn't buy an RX because I've moved on in my life to "better" more expensive vehicles, but the RX and ES have their place in the market, and they have many, many happy consumers who buy what to them is a luxury car.
This has significant disadvantages when you compare it to X5 in terms of ride quality, handling, high speed stability, off road prowess etc.
06-14-18, 06:40 PM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
06-14-18, 06:49 PM
#60
drives cars