Future of the Lexus GS around the world
04-10-18, 09:11 PM
#286
Lexus Test Driver
We've probably alluded to this before, but some don't consider Lexus to be on the same plane as the Germans, thinking they are more on an Acura level in terms of pricing and quality. This is mainly just misinformation/misconception. About a year after I got the IS, even my wife, who was there with me on delivery day, asked me if I was going to "upgrade" to a BMW or Benz for my next vehicle. I politely let her know that the 330i and C-class are roughly the same price as what I got, with fewer features. 
Also, that Lexus really is just as good as the Germans, at least on the whole - and better when it comes to build quality and reliability. Even though I cross-shopped the vehicles she still considered Lexus to be just an alternative to the more-established Germans, not a true replacement. Of course now, she fully gets it. 
But that's just a theory.
Also, that Lexus really is just as good as the Germans, at least on the whole - and better when it comes to build quality and reliability. Even though I cross-shopped the vehicles she still considered Lexus to be just an alternative to the more-established Germans, not a true replacement. Of course now, she fully gets it. But that's just a theory.
Lexus cars on average are at least $10-25k cheaper depending on the model and options.
04-10-18, 09:17 PM
#287
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by RNM GS3
I would say if price was not an issue 90% of ppl who currently own Lexus would get MB/BMW.
Lexus cars on average are at least $10-25k cheaper depending on the model and options.
Lexus cars on average are at least $10-25k cheaper depending on the model and options.
Also, here is hoping that BMW gets their ish together for the next gen 3 series.
04-10-18, 09:23 PM
#288
Lexus Test Driver
What can Lexus really do to compete with the Germans? Like many others have alluded to.... Lexus already competes extremely well versus the Germans. There is a really big, big misconception that Lexus isn't a good car company compared to the Germans because of the brand. The perception of brand is huge - this leads many average consumers to ignore Lexus or thinks German cars are more of an "upgrade" to Lexus when its really not. There are actually people that think a BMW with less options is better than a Lexus with more options.
Lexus NX sales > BMW X3 Sales
Lexus RX sales > BMW X5 Sales
Lexus GX sales > BMW X6 Sales
Lexus is destroying the Germans in the SUV game - which is by-far the more important game because the USA is on a SUV craze. One can assume the Lexus UX will do 10 folds better than the BMW X1/X2.
My point is: Lexus is competing well and its on the same boat as the Germans in terms of luxury. However - due to marketing and the way the average consumer think - many will be falsely lead to believe Lexus isn't on the same boat as the Germans and it isn't doing well. This in turn can harm sales figures for Lexus. This is one of the reasons why I think Lexus GS sales aren't as good as BMW 5 Series or MB E-Class.
I'm speculating the GS400 can have a detuned version of the Lexus LS TTV6 - if indeed they go the GS400 route.
What year ES350? Those things are so comfy. I think you might have trouble giving it back to your dad because its so comfy. They are so easy to live with.
Agreed. Lexus is fully competitive. Lexus' quality, refinement, reliability, and resale value are the best in the car-game. Its insane how a Lexus IS, after being 4 years old, can still be worth close to 30K OTD in the Bay Area. Other cars that compete with the Lexus IS would have tanked well into the 20s already by the 4 year mark. Agreed also - Lexus does have a variety of products that span towards different people's taste. The people that have complained about Lexus' variety of products are the ones asking for V8s or more power. Like I said earlier - Lexus does offer a good selection of cars but to some people they don't think its enough because they don't offer the selection they like.
I think Lexus' new design is well received overall and they finally have their unique look coming in. It'll definitely be Lexus' signature look for awhile. The thing is: less people complain about the MB, BMW or Audi designs because they conservatively change them. Its a conservative refresh into a conservative redesign. People seems to feel less threaten because newer design feels familiar to them. Lexus is probably doing this too with the new cars going forward since they have found their look. My dad initially complained about how ugly the new Lexus grill and design was when it first debuted. However - over time - he started to like it. He told me he initially felt the change from their older designs were too dramatic.
I personally don't think the age or the design is the issue. The redesign alone will not help the Lexus GS compete against the 5 Series or E-Class. The 5 Series and E-Class have been marketed to be definition of executive rear-drive sedans. What Lexus needs to do is defined the place of the next-gen Lexus GS more than anything. They have to market and product place better. The problem is the average consumers think the Lexus GS is a bigger Lexus IS and its not as good as the 5 Series or E-Class - when in fact the Lexus GS is just as good (not right now because the BMW/MB already updated).
^^^^Evidence of this: the 2013 Lexus GS compared to the 2013 F10 BMW 5 Series.
At the time - the Lexus GS was a brand new car coming out with more features standard, had more tech, better value and it was cheaper - but yet the 2 year older more expensive BMW 5 Series sold more copies. At the time of 2013 - the Lexus GS was a better car than the 5 Series but it didn't sell well compared to it. In 2013 - Lexus GS sold 19.7K units while the 5 Series sold 56.8K units.
I think Lexus finally understands this because they product placed the Lexus LS into the Blank Panther movie (which is the 3rd highly grossed movie of all time now.)
Agreed. It is a huge misinformation/misconception that the average consumers (people) that think Lexus isn't on the same planes as the German.
Your wife isn't the only saying this too. I have friends and cousins in this boat as well. They think the Germans are a step up from a Lexus - the average consumer thinks this way. This is caused by the perception the Germans are a better brand. It has a lot to do with the marketing the Germans put out to make their cars look better than they really are. (I'm not saying they don't make good cars - they do.) But they market their cars in such a way where average consumers think a lesser equipped BMW is better than a fully equipped Lexus IS because it carries the BMW/MB logo. If you look at the sales numbers of the 2014 Lexus IS and 2014 BMW 3 Series, this theory holds true. The 2014 Lexus IS was a brand new car, better features, more feature as standard, cheaper, more reliable, and etc... overall it was just better than the 3 Series at the time. However - the BMW 3 Series still sold double the amount of the Lexus IS. This is probably why I see more no option or minimally optioned BMW 3 Series than fully loaded ones in my area.
While the Lexus GS isn't competitive against the Germans, the brand is. That's the point being made here.
You are making it sound like sharing platform with Toyota is a bad thing? Lexus is Toyota. This is no different from how VW and Audi shares platforms. If BMW has a non-luxury company that owns it, it'll likely share platforms as well.
Lexus NX sales > BMW X3 Sales
Lexus RX sales > BMW X5 Sales
Lexus GX sales > BMW X6 Sales
Lexus is destroying the Germans in the SUV game - which is by-far the more important game because the USA is on a SUV craze. One can assume the Lexus UX will do 10 folds better than the BMW X1/X2.
My point is: Lexus is competing well and its on the same boat as the Germans in terms of luxury. However - due to marketing and the way the average consumer think - many will be falsely lead to believe Lexus isn't on the same boat as the Germans and it isn't doing well. This in turn can harm sales figures for Lexus. This is one of the reasons why I think Lexus GS sales aren't as good as BMW 5 Series or MB E-Class.
I'm speculating the GS400 can have a detuned version of the Lexus LS TTV6 - if indeed they go the GS400 route.
What year ES350? Those things are so comfy. I think you might have trouble giving it back to your dad because its so comfy. They are so easy to live with.
Agreed. Lexus is fully competitive. Lexus' quality, refinement, reliability, and resale value are the best in the car-game. Its insane how a Lexus IS, after being 4 years old, can still be worth close to 30K OTD in the Bay Area. Other cars that compete with the Lexus IS would have tanked well into the 20s already by the 4 year mark. Agreed also - Lexus does have a variety of products that span towards different people's taste. The people that have complained about Lexus' variety of products are the ones asking for V8s or more power. Like I said earlier - Lexus does offer a good selection of cars but to some people they don't think its enough because they don't offer the selection they like.
I think Lexus' new design is well received overall and they finally have their unique look coming in. It'll definitely be Lexus' signature look for awhile. The thing is: less people complain about the MB, BMW or Audi designs because they conservatively change them. Its a conservative refresh into a conservative redesign. People seems to feel less threaten because newer design feels familiar to them. Lexus is probably doing this too with the new cars going forward since they have found their look. My dad initially complained about how ugly the new Lexus grill and design was when it first debuted. However - over time - he started to like it. He told me he initially felt the change from their older designs were too dramatic.
I personally don't think the age or the design is the issue. The redesign alone will not help the Lexus GS compete against the 5 Series or E-Class. The 5 Series and E-Class have been marketed to be definition of executive rear-drive sedans. What Lexus needs to do is defined the place of the next-gen Lexus GS more than anything. They have to market and product place better. The problem is the average consumers think the Lexus GS is a bigger Lexus IS and its not as good as the 5 Series or E-Class - when in fact the Lexus GS is just as good (not right now because the BMW/MB already updated).
^^^^Evidence of this: the 2013 Lexus GS compared to the 2013 F10 BMW 5 Series.
At the time - the Lexus GS was a brand new car coming out with more features standard, had more tech, better value and it was cheaper - but yet the 2 year older more expensive BMW 5 Series sold more copies. At the time of 2013 - the Lexus GS was a better car than the 5 Series but it didn't sell well compared to it. In 2013 - Lexus GS sold 19.7K units while the 5 Series sold 56.8K units.
I think Lexus finally understands this because they product placed the Lexus LS into the Blank Panther movie (which is the 3rd highly grossed movie of all time now.)
Agreed. It is a huge misinformation/misconception that the average consumers (people) that think Lexus isn't on the same planes as the German.
Your wife isn't the only saying this too. I have friends and cousins in this boat as well. They think the Germans are a step up from a Lexus - the average consumer thinks this way. This is caused by the perception the Germans are a better brand. It has a lot to do with the marketing the Germans put out to make their cars look better than they really are. (I'm not saying they don't make good cars - they do.) But they market their cars in such a way where average consumers think a lesser equipped BMW is better than a fully equipped Lexus IS because it carries the BMW/MB logo. If you look at the sales numbers of the 2014 Lexus IS and 2014 BMW 3 Series, this theory holds true. The 2014 Lexus IS was a brand new car, better features, more feature as standard, cheaper, more reliable, and etc... overall it was just better than the 3 Series at the time. However - the BMW 3 Series still sold double the amount of the Lexus IS. This is probably why I see more no option or minimally optioned BMW 3 Series than fully loaded ones in my area.
While the Lexus GS isn't competitive against the Germans, the brand is. That's the point being made here.
You are making it sound like sharing platform with Toyota is a bad thing? Lexus is Toyota. This is no different from how VW and Audi shares platforms. If BMW has a non-luxury company that owns it, it'll likely share platforms as well.
NX is priced like X1.
RX like X3.
GX like X5.
Nobody can deny the RX dominates SUV luxury sales.
The X5 sells well in it's own right and costs significantly more and its a much better SUV overall.
Dealerships don't help Lexus with GS sales.
They are quick to push ES over GS.
Lexus HQ does not care or maybe they don't know.
Until ES is gone, GS will never sell well even if they put the 400hp V6TT in the base GS.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 04-10-18 at 09:29 PM.
04-10-18, 09:25 PM
#289
On the topic of whether or not Lexus is an average luxury brand, IMO, if Lexus' current product offerings - coupled with their products topping the reliability studies for many years in a row - makes them average... I'm in for buying an average luxury brand's product (as I did just that)! But that view is based on my own wants and needs, as I buy and keep cars for the long-term, so dependability is a motivator for me.
My impression is that more and more people have short attention spans and want to exchange their autos with more frequency than ever before.
This "gotta have the latest and greatest" mentality, whether it's needed or not, is more popular than ever. I can't tell you how many friends / co-workers / colleagues / etc. buy new phones when they don't need one, they only want what's new simply bc it's new (and everyone else has it) - this mentality seems to be motivating more and more car decisions among younger buyers, and I think this mindset does not mesh well with Lexus' well-established brand positioning of long-term reliability. BMW / MB is the car you lease, Lexus is the car you keep, and as the market of keepers shrinks, so do Lexus' sales it would appear.
Lexus' dilemma... how to remain a reliable and quality product in an ever expanding disposable product society?
Good luck Lexus!
My impression is that more and more people have short attention spans and want to exchange their autos with more frequency than ever before.
This "gotta have the latest and greatest" mentality, whether it's needed or not, is more popular than ever. I can't tell you how many friends / co-workers / colleagues / etc. buy new phones when they don't need one, they only want what's new simply bc it's new (and everyone else has it) - this mentality seems to be motivating more and more car decisions among younger buyers, and I think this mindset does not mesh well with Lexus' well-established brand positioning of long-term reliability. BMW / MB is the car you lease, Lexus is the car you keep, and as the market of keepers shrinks, so do Lexus' sales it would appear.
Lexus' dilemma... how to remain a reliable and quality product in an ever expanding disposable product society?
Good luck Lexus!
Holly Guacamole,
Your explanation was 100% honest and on point case closed!
Just look at all the car luxury brands that have recently started launching subscription services. The millennial generation has been a nightmare for conventional thinking marketing firms. These damn kids are so hard to track and they are always switching to something new especially once their parents start getting hip to it. Age wise I fall into this generational group, but I’m more conservative thinking than the average consumer my age hence why I bought a lexus as a daily driver. I get teased at work all the time for owning a smaller size iPhone, even though I own a 6 month old 128GB iPhone SE with the same internals as their larger 6S. Their preception is you have a small screen phone, it must be ancient what’s wrong with you? My preception is I hate gigantic phones, I don’t play games or watch movies on the thing nor is my eye sight bad. So why have a large screen for something used simply for talking and texting.
The average conusmer thinks bigger is better and bigger also lets others know you have the latest and greatest in regards to phones. Similar ideology also exists with car brands and their consumers and even I’ve fallen victim to the trap. Once again I was attracted to the GS over its direct competition mainly due to very large 12.3” display, now not so large any more, it was the biggest in the business when it launched back in 2013 (except for Model S).
Its all a numbers game at the end of the day. More speakers, more watts, larger diameter wheels, bigger infotainment screens, bigger grilles and exhaust pipe outlets etc. this on top of brand prestige sways people opinions to buy what they buy.
Last edited by highrev6; 04-10-18 at 09:47 PM.
04-10-18, 10:10 PM
#290
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by bippulexus
Someone else on this thread or another thread point out a good reason that often gets overlooked or not talked about. Its racial background of costumers and the company themselves.
The Lexus GS will unlikely ever be a hit in Europe - just like how European/American cars will never be a hit in Japan. The 5 Series and E-Class are Europe's flagship cars. They are hometown cars - thus - already putting the Lexus GS at a disadvantage.
Racial demographic of buyers is another point but its not an important factor - but it plays one. Lets be real - there are some racist a-holes out in this world. There are White-Americans that will refuse to buy Japanese because its Asian. And there are Asian-Americans to refuse to buy American or European because they are a "White". Regardless of the reason how they feel - this plays into the sales volume.
No. The GS is having trouble because it hasn't seen a lot of attention from Toyota. The company was too busy playing with LFAs and RCs while selling tons of fwd ES and RX vehicles to happy customers who may or may not be Asians, Americans or Kang and Kodos from the Simpsons.
04-10-18, 10:52 PM
#291
Lexus Test Driver
On the topic of whether or not Lexus is an average luxury brand, IMO, if Lexus' current product offerings - coupled with their products topping the reliability studies for many years in a row - makes them average... I'm in for buying an average luxury brand's product (as I did just that)! But that view is based on my own wants and needs, as I buy and keep cars for the long-term, so dependability is a motivator for me.
My impression is that more and more people have short attention spans and want to exchange their autos with more frequency than ever before.
This "gotta have the latest and greatest" mentality, whether it's needed or not, is more popular than ever. I can't tell you how many friends / co-workers / colleagues / etc. buy new phones when they don't need one, they only want what's new simply bc it's new (and everyone else has it) - this mentality seems to be motivating more and more car decisions among younger buyers, and I think this mindset does not mesh well with Lexus' well-established brand positioning of long-term reliability. BMW / MB is the car you lease, Lexus is the car you keep, and as the market of keepers shrinks, so do Lexus' sales it would appear.
Lexus' dilemma... how to remain a reliable and quality product in an ever expanding disposable product society?
Good luck Lexus!
My impression is that more and more people have short attention spans and want to exchange their autos with more frequency than ever before.
This "gotta have the latest and greatest" mentality, whether it's needed or not, is more popular than ever. I can't tell you how many friends / co-workers / colleagues / etc. buy new phones when they don't need one, they only want what's new simply bc it's new (and everyone else has it) - this mentality seems to be motivating more and more car decisions among younger buyers, and I think this mindset does not mesh well with Lexus' well-established brand positioning of long-term reliability. BMW / MB is the car you lease, Lexus is the car you keep, and as the market of keepers shrinks, so do Lexus' sales it would appear.
Lexus' dilemma... how to remain a reliable and quality product in an ever expanding disposable product society?
Good luck Lexus!
Your last paragraph is 100% true. Today's buyers want the "latest and greatest". Its phones, laptops, clothes, cars, and etc... They just want it "new". This is also why these buyers are always complaining about the infotainment system - always saying its not good. I don't remember who but someone here made a good point - and that is - people are switching their cars too often to a point where they don't learn or invest into the infotainment system. This leads them to think the infotainment system sucks. If you keep your car, chances are you will love the infotainment system overtime.
I personally think keeping and using the car till its old is the way to go. This will allow you to get your moneys worth - especially with Lexus since these things can drive till they are over 200K miles.
People purchasing cars in the 40K+ range will have enough money to shell out for a German car if they really want a German car. And people do - people rather pay more for a stripper MB/BMW than a loaded Lexus.
Second - when you have majority of the luxury car sales being leases - people aren't exactly too worried about the German pricing - especially when BMW has good lease deals on stripper 3 Series.
Lastly - people who buy Lexus, as someone mentioned here, its buying it to keep. Lexus is an investment because it won't break on you in 30K miles. I would buy Lexus over BMW if Lexus was 10K more expensive because I'll see it as saving more money in the long run from avoiding auto-shops.
Where did you get those high numbers? Its more like 1K-15K depending on options and models...
Your sales comparisons are way off.
NX is priced like X1.
RX like X3.
GX like X5.
Nobody can deny the RX dominates SUV luxury sales.
The X5 sells well in it's own right and costs significantly more and its a much better SUV overall.
Dealerships don't help Lexus with GS sales.
They are quick to push ES over GS.
Lexus HQ does not care or maybe they don't know.
Until ES is gone, GS will never sell well even if they put the 400hp V6TT in the base GS.
NX is priced like X1.
RX like X3.
GX like X5.
Nobody can deny the RX dominates SUV luxury sales.
The X5 sells well in it's own right and costs significantly more and its a much better SUV overall.
Dealerships don't help Lexus with GS sales.
They are quick to push ES over GS.
Lexus HQ does not care or maybe they don't know.
Until ES is gone, GS will never sell well even if they put the 400hp V6TT in the base GS.
First - the Lexus NX starts at 35.9K - the X1 starts at 33.9K and X2 starts at 36.4K. Historically - Lexus undercuts the German competition by at least a few thousand (by the way - you even said Lexus is priced cheaper in your previous comment); this means the Lexus NX competes with the X3. The NX and X3 are also the most similar in size. Further proof of this is that the introduction of the Lexus UX, which will be a cheaper and small version of the NX. The cheaper and smaller UX will be the competitor to the BMW X1 and X2 based on size and price.
Second - the Lexus RX can't compete with the X3 because the RX is much bigger with a RX-L model for an extra third row of seats. The X3 doesn't have this but the BMW X5 does. The RX and X5 both are similar in size and both offer 3-row seats. Also - majority of car-mags review the RX and X5 together - as they are competitors.
Third - that leave the GX and X6 to compete against each other. EDIT: The GX and X6 don't directly compete against each other. This is more of a reference for the sake of the conversation.
Disagree. If we are talking about what's a better "SUV" overall, the Lexus RX is a better SUV overall. The Lexus RX offers everything the X5 offers plus reliability, value and a good price - which is important in a family SUV.
Agreed. Lexus can't sell the Lexus ES/GS together. In my opinion - they should remove the ES and focus on the GS. However - Lexus makes what sells - the ES is likely to stay.
Holly Guacamole,
Your explanation was 100% honest and on point case closed!
Just look at all the car luxury brands that have recently started launching subscription services. The millennial generation has been a nightmare for conventional thinking marketing firms. These damn kids are so hard to track and they are always switching to something new especially once their parents start getting hip to it. Age wise I fall into this generational group, but I’m more conservative thinking than the average consumer my age hence why I bought a lexus as a daily driver. I get teased at work all the time for owning a smaller size iPhone, even though I own a 6 month old 128GB iPhone SE with the same internals as their larger 6S. Their preception is you have a small screen phone, it must be ancient what’s wrong with you? My preception is I hate gigantic phones, I don’t play games or watch movies on the thing nor is my eye sight bad. So why have a large screen for something used simply for talking and texting.
The average conusmer thinks bigger is better and bigger also lets others know you have the latest and greatest in regards to phones. Similar ideology also exists with car brands and their consumers and even I’ve fallen victim to the trap. Once again I was attracted to the GS over its direct competition mainly due to very large 12.3” display, now not so large any more, it was the biggest in the business when it launched back in 2013 (except for Model S).
Its all a numbers game at the end of the day. More speakers, more watts, larger diameter wheels, bigger infotainment screens, bigger grilles and exhaust pipe outlets etc. this on top of brand prestige sways people opinions to buy what they buy
Your explanation was 100% honest and on point case closed!
Just look at all the car luxury brands that have recently started launching subscription services. The millennial generation has been a nightmare for conventional thinking marketing firms. These damn kids are so hard to track and they are always switching to something new especially once their parents start getting hip to it. Age wise I fall into this generational group, but I’m more conservative thinking than the average consumer my age hence why I bought a lexus as a daily driver. I get teased at work all the time for owning a smaller size iPhone, even though I own a 6 month old 128GB iPhone SE with the same internals as their larger 6S. Their preception is you have a small screen phone, it must be ancient what’s wrong with you? My preception is I hate gigantic phones, I don’t play games or watch movies on the thing nor is my eye sight bad. So why have a large screen for something used simply for talking and texting.
The average conusmer thinks bigger is better and bigger also lets others know you have the latest and greatest in regards to phones. Similar ideology also exists with car brands and their consumers and even I’ve fallen victim to the trap. Once again I was attracted to the GS over its direct competition mainly due to very large 12.3” display, now not so large any more, it was the biggest in the business when it launched back in 2013 (except for Model S).
Its all a numbers game at the end of the day. More speakers, more watts, larger diameter wheels, bigger infotainment screens, bigger grilles and exhaust pipe outlets etc. this on top of brand prestige sways people opinions to buy what they buy
Last edited by BippuLexus; 04-11-18 at 12:25 AM.
04-10-18, 11:09 PM
#292
Lexus Test Driver
Got it. When customers aren't dumb as *****, subject to smart marketing metrics of really, really smart marketing measuring people, then it's a racial thing now. That's why Kia Stingers must be only selling to uuhh non-white, non-hating very progressive Asian people. Didn't know that. Thanks.
Japan has tariffs on European cars to protect its home market. The 5 and E are not flagship cars. The 7 and S are flagship cars, just like the LS is a Lexus flagship or the Toyota Century in JDM.
Interesting. So everybody hates everybody else's cars because of some sort of racial animus. Gosh, you better tell Jewish people to never buy German cars. And India's Tata Motors, why the heck would they buy JLR? And building German and Japanese cars in Alabama and selling them to Americans? Why there better be some racial questionaires handed out to make sure that nobody buys the wrong car or drinks at the wrong fountain.
No. The GS is having trouble because it hasn't seen a lot of attention from Toyota. The company was too busy playing with LFAs and RCs while selling tons of fwd ES and RX vehicles to happy customers who may or may not be Asians, Americans or Kang and Kodos from the Simpsons.
Japan has tariffs on European cars to protect its home market. The 5 and E are not flagship cars. The 7 and S are flagship cars, just like the LS is a Lexus flagship or the Toyota Century in JDM.
Interesting. So everybody hates everybody else's cars because of some sort of racial animus. Gosh, you better tell Jewish people to never buy German cars. And India's Tata Motors, why the heck would they buy JLR? And building German and Japanese cars in Alabama and selling them to Americans? Why there better be some racial questionaires handed out to make sure that nobody buys the wrong car or drinks at the wrong fountain.
No. The GS is having trouble because it hasn't seen a lot of attention from Toyota. The company was too busy playing with LFAs and RCs while selling tons of fwd ES and RX vehicles to happy customers who may or may not be Asians, Americans or Kang and Kodos from the Simpsons.
Where did I say everybody? I mentioned it because it was brought up on a thread and I thought it was interesting. As I stated - there could be people that boycott products of a specific brand because of racial alignment. Many Americans buy American because they support American companies. This is what I was alluding to. Especially since America is a melting pot of cultures - some people would rather support their birth-country. Who knows?
^I don't appreciate your micro-aggression. I would gladly appreciate it if you step the F back. Was I micro-aggressive towards you?
I only brought up a point I noticed on another thread and I thought it was interesting. It was more of a conversation starter and there was nothing offensive about what I said. You are free to your opinions and you don't have to agree with me. But holy sht, you didn't have to be a f'ing 5 year old *** about it. Thanks.
04-11-18, 12:13 AM
#293
I beg the differ - my Lexus sales comparisons are just right.
First - the Lexus NX starts at 35.9K - the X1 starts at 33.9K and X2 starts at 36.4K. Historically - Lexus undercuts the German competition by at least a few thousand (by the way - you even said Lexus is priced cheaper in your previous comment); this means the Lexus NX competes with the X3. The NX and X3 are also the most similar in size. Further proof of this is that the introduction of the Lexus UX, which will be a cheaper and small version of the NX. The cheaper and smaller UX will be the competitor to the BMW X1 and X2 based on size and price.
Second - the Lexus RX can't compete with the X3 because the RX is much bigger with a RX-L model for an extra third row of seats. The X3 doesn't have this but the BMW X5 does. The RX and X5 both are similar in size and both offer 3-row seats. Also - majority of car-mags review the RX and X5 together - as they are competitors.
Third - that leave the GX and X6 to compete against each other. They also both similar in size as well.
I just have to swing in here to say I agreed with your statement regarding what Lexus SUV models compete against which BMW models. But I couldn’t help but notice your sentence saying the X6 and GX compete.
These two SUV models don’t compete at all, are at two polar opposites of the SUV spectrum and couldn’t be more different in regards to consumers they are attempting to attract.
The GX 460 is a body on frame medium sized SUV that’s very off-road capably and can seat 6-7 passengers. It’s closest competition would be the Land Rover Discovery which shares many of its same attributes and is designed with a similar purpose and execution.
The BMW X6 is a weird mix of a mid size crossover and 4 door coupé all in one. It’s closest competition would be Mercedes GLE coupé, Maserati Levante and Land Rover RR Velar or possibly LR Range Rover Sport.
BMW doesn’t make a true off-road capable vehicle and Lexus doesn’t make a 4 door coupé esque SUV.
Other than that one mistake your paragraph on comparing these two brands was a okay in my book.
Last edited by highrev6; 04-11-18 at 12:24 AM.
04-11-18, 12:18 AM
#294
Lexus Test Driver
I just have to swing in here to say I agreed with your statement regarding what Lexus SUV models compete against which BMW models. But I couldn’t help but notice you sentence saying the X6 and GX compete.
These two SUV models don’t compete at all, are at two polar opposites of the SUV spectrum and couldn’t be more different in regards to consumers they are attempting to attract.
The GX 460 is a body on frame medium sized SUV that’s very off-road capably and can seat 6-7 passengers. It’s closest competition would be the Land Rover Discovery which shares many of its same attributes and is designed with a similar purpose and execution.
The BMW X6 is a weird mix of a mid size crossover and 4 door coupé all in one. It’s closest competition would be Mercedes GLE coupé, Maserati Levante and Land Rover RR Velar or possibly LR Range Rover Sport.
BMW doesn’t make a true off-road capable vehicle and Lexus doesn’t make a 4 door coupé esque SUV.
Other than that one mistake your paragraph on comparing these two brands was a okay in my book.
These two SUV models don’t compete at all, are at two polar opposites of the SUV spectrum and couldn’t be more different in regards to consumers they are attempting to attract.
The GX 460 is a body on frame medium sized SUV that’s very off-road capably and can seat 6-7 passengers. It’s closest competition would be the Land Rover Discovery which shares many of its same attributes and is designed with a similar purpose and execution.
The BMW X6 is a weird mix of a mid size crossover and 4 door coupé all in one. It’s closest competition would be Mercedes GLE coupé, Maserati Levante and Land Rover RR Velar or possibly LR Range Rover Sport.
BMW doesn’t make a true off-road capable vehicle and Lexus doesn’t make a 4 door coupé esque SUV.
Other than that one mistake your paragraph on comparing these two brands was a okay in my book.
The GX is indeed a transitional SUV while the X6 was designed to be more of a crossover SUV with a sporty roof-line.
You are definitely correct. The GLE is more a of a direct competitor to the X6. Lexus has no actual true competitor to a X6 type vehicle. Knowing how Lexus is conservative, they'll probably never make one either.
Last edited by BippuLexus; 04-11-18 at 12:25 AM.
04-11-18, 12:25 AM
#295
I have unfortunately owned one Mercedes and 2 BMWs. I would never again go there! Particularly BMW where the fuel pump failed twice in the first 5000 miles and with the V-8 had to replace crankshaft bearings at 12000 miles with no warranty coverage from the factory. Price is not the issue, poor German product support is! I can't understand why people still buy these POS cars.
04-11-18, 01:32 AM
#296
I have unfortunately owned one Mercedes and 2 BMWs. I would never again go there! Particularly BMW where the fuel pump failed twice in the first 5000 miles and with the V-8 had to replace crankshaft bearings at 12000 miles with no warranty coverage from the factory. Price is not the issue, poor German product support is! I can't understand why people still buy these POS cars.
like BippuLexus, PatrixUSA and so many others have been repeatedly stating, it’s mainly the preception of brand prestige, awesome lease deals on super stripper base model cars. I won’t write you a dissertation, but the average bloke who leases one of these what you call a POS isn’t all that concerned about reliability track record especially since the comprehensive warranty will certainly last beyond their lease period. Diamler’s-Benz 133 year history and BMW 102 year history both help tremendously. Brand placement is also another big contributor, Mercedes and BMW are seen as brands for those who have so called “made it”. Unfortunately even though pulling up in a Lexus won’t get you labeled as poor, Lexus isn’t the first brand recognized as being the most prestigious in regards to tech and luxury. On lookers will perceive you as one with some money, but in the back of their mind your a conscious, conservative spender who appreciates a good bargain. While the BMW & Benz owner is perceived as daring and a jet setter.
This varies depending on the tax bracket a consumer falls under too. For example I have several newer German/Italian cars parked in my garage. Sometimes I just want to be a little incognito and that’s why I bought my GS. I get the luxury of kinda per se flying under the radar while still enjoying all the modern luxury conveniences the GS has to offer. It offers up the same level of performance and features as what I felt the E350, 535i and A6 3.0T did, but without all the snobbery for lack of a better term. I can comfortably drive around town, run and attend appointments without being misperceived as one who has great wealth aka has made it. Sometimes I want that wealthy/“he’s made it” perception sometimes I don’t, it all depends on what I’m working on or trying to achieve. When I take my Maserati out for a evening cruise or to a nice after 5 event I want that type of he’s made it attention. It still seems weird to me how people look, treat and speak to me when I switch between different car brands. I have a buddy with far greater wealth than I do, and he considers the Maserati Ghibli a daily driver and car for so called being incognito and attending business meetings, shopping etc. while the Bentley GT is a show off car to him. He recently changed his mind on the Ghibli and now feels it’s still a bit too flashy to fly under the radar and wants to down grade to what he thinks no one will really notice a BMW 6er Gran Coupé.
It’s very funny how people perceive brand image. The average bloke driving a brand new Kia Stinger would probably consider all these cars vehicles of the rich. But here we have people who actually own these cars looking for alternative less attention getting cars that will still grab plenty of attention depending on the onlooker.
Last edited by highrev6; 04-11-18 at 07:16 AM.
04-11-18, 05:35 AM
#297
Lexus Champion
I have unfortunately owned one Mercedes and 2 BMWs. I would never again go there! Particularly BMW where the fuel pump failed twice in the first 5000 miles and with the V-8 had to replace crankshaft bearings at 12000 miles with no warranty coverage from the factory. Price is not the issue, poor German product support is! I can't understand why people still buy these POS cars.
04-11-18, 09:35 AM
#298
Lexus Test Driver
I have unfortunately owned one Mercedes and 2 BMWs. I would never again go there! Particularly BMW where the fuel pump failed twice in the first 5000 miles and with the V-8 had to replace crankshaft bearings at 12000 miles with no warranty coverage from the factory. Price is not the issue, poor German product support is! I can't understand why people still buy these POS cars.
like BippuLexus, PatrixUSA and so many others have been repeatedly stating, it’s mainly the preception of brand prestige, awesome lease deals on super stripper base model cars. I won’t write you a dissertation, but the average bloke who leases one of these what you call a POS isn’t all that concerned about reliability track record especially since the comprehensive warranty will certainly last beyond their lease period. Diamler’s-Benz 133 year history and BMW 102 year history both help tremendously. Brand placement is also another big contributor, Mercedes and BMW are seen as brands for those who have so called “made it”. Unfortunately even though pulling up in a Lexus won’t get you labeled as poor, Lexus isn’t the first brand recognized as being the most prestigious in regards to tech and luxury. On lookers will perceive you as one with some money, but in the back of their mind your a conscious, conservative spender who appreciates a good bargain. While the BMW & Benz owner is perceived as daring and a jet setter.
This varies depending on the tax bracket a consumer falls under too. For example I have several newer German/Italian cars parked in my garage. Sometimes I just want to be a little incognito and that’s why I bought my GS. I get the luxury of kinda per se flying under the radar while still enjoying all the modern luxury conveniences the GS has to offer. It offers up the same level of performance and features as what I felt the E350, 535i and A6 3.0T did, but without all the snobbery for lack of a better term. I can comfortably drive around town, run and attend appointments without being misperceived as one who has great wealth aka has made it. Sometimes I want that wealthy/“he’s made it” perception sometimes I don’t, it all depends on what I’m working on or trying to achieve. When I take my Maserati out for a evening cruise or to a nice after 5 event I want that type of he’s made it attention. It still seems weird to me how people look, treat and speak to me when I switch between different car brands. I have a buddy with far greater wealth than I do, and he considers the Maserati Ghibli a daily driver and car for so called being incognito and attending business meetings, shopping etc. while the Bentley GT is a show off car to him. He recently changed his mind on the Ghibli and now feels it’s still a bit too flashy to fly under the radar and wants to down grade to what he thinks no one will really notice a BMW 6er Gran Coupé.
It’s very funny how people perceive brand image. The average bloke driving a brand new Kia Stinger would probably consider all these cars vehicles of the rich. But here we have people who actually own these cars looking for alternative less attention getting cars that will still grab plenty of attention depending on the onlooker.
This varies depending on the tax bracket a consumer falls under too. For example I have several newer German/Italian cars parked in my garage. Sometimes I just want to be a little incognito and that’s why I bought my GS. I get the luxury of kinda per se flying under the radar while still enjoying all the modern luxury conveniences the GS has to offer. It offers up the same level of performance and features as what I felt the E350, 535i and A6 3.0T did, but without all the snobbery for lack of a better term. I can comfortably drive around town, run and attend appointments without being misperceived as one who has great wealth aka has made it. Sometimes I want that wealthy/“he’s made it” perception sometimes I don’t, it all depends on what I’m working on or trying to achieve. When I take my Maserati out for a evening cruise or to a nice after 5 event I want that type of he’s made it attention. It still seems weird to me how people look, treat and speak to me when I switch between different car brands. I have a buddy with far greater wealth than I do, and he considers the Maserati Ghibli a daily driver and car for so called being incognito and attending business meetings, shopping etc. while the Bentley GT is a show off car to him. He recently changed his mind on the Ghibli and now feels it’s still a bit too flashy to fly under the radar and wants to down grade to what he thinks no one will really notice a BMW 6er Gran Coupé.
It’s very funny how people perceive brand image. The average bloke driving a brand new Kia Stinger would probably consider all these cars vehicles of the rich. But here we have people who actually own these cars looking for alternative less attention getting cars that will still grab plenty of attention depending on the onlooker.
04-11-18, 09:58 AM
#299
Lexus Fanatic
Your sales comparisons are way off.
NX is priced like X1.
RX like X3.
GX like X5.
Nobody can deny the RX dominates SUV luxury sales.
The X5 sells well in it's own right and costs significantly more and its a much better SUV overall.
Dealerships don't help Lexus with GS sales.
They are quick to push ES over GS.
Lexus HQ does not care or maybe they don't know.
Until ES is gone, GS will never sell well even if they put the 400hp V6TT in the base GS.
04-11-18, 11:33 AM
#300
Pole Position
It isnt really the dealer's fault. When the ES has more usable interior room and trunk with more than $10k in savings, how will they convince the buyer to pay so much more for a little more power and AWD? But if they shove the V6TT in there, now there's a point of differentiation that the dealers can push. Right now 270hp vs 300hp doesnt make much of a difference and certainly not worth over $10k, even with AWD.