Future of the Lexus GS around the world
04-13-18, 04:17 PM
#316
Lexus Test Driver
Well if you think a TT V6 is better than a TT V8 and you feel that Lexus has really done all it could after having the previous generation hang around for 11 years - you are definitely a die hard Lexus fan.
On the GS point - they need to further differentiate it from the ES therefore making it a really sporty 4door coupe with LC styling would not be so bad.
On the GS point - they need to further differentiate it from the ES therefore making it a really sporty 4door coupe with LC styling would not be so bad.
If you would just go sit in the Lexus LS Executive Package Kirko Glass, you would know the 2019 Lexus LS is a massive improvement over the 4th generation Lexus LS. You are basing your opinions on a F-Sport model that wasn't loaded at the Auto show.
I get it, you are a die hard German/BMW fan; I mean why else would you claim the Lexus LS won't sell (in a previous post)?
Yes. Back to the GS point - they do need to differentiate the GS from the ES. But the 4-door coupe way is not the way to do it. Why would they make 4-door coupes, when 4-door coupes from competing companies sold worst than their Lexus GS? Shouldn't they strive to be better?
Last edited by BippuLexus; 04-13-18 at 04:21 PM.
04-13-18, 04:29 PM
#317
yeah the V12 65 AMG’s are on their last leg. The guzzle gas which is bad for the corporate cafe fleet average. Word has it AMG is replacing the 65 with a 73 AMG nomenclature. The 73 will consist of a plug twin turbo V8 hybrid setup similar to what Porsche is doing in the soon to be announced Cayenne Turbo S-E Hybrid and the Panamera Turbo S-E Hybrid. This setup should produce a mountain of torque and allow these type of cars to enter into cities like London after their local governments ban internal combustion cars in 10-20 years.
04-13-18, 04:32 PM
#318
Lexus Test Driver
^
I like BMW but i can call them out on weak offerings.
The current 7 is a disappointment and im not a big fan of the new 5 either.
You clearly said V6 is better than V8, I thought you were referring to TT V8 like all of the LS competitors.
Unfortunately the Fsport model was the only one i saw at the show and Lexus obviously felt that was good enough representation. Legroom will not increase in luxury versions and V6 will not magically become a V8....
My point is that the top of the line LS500 with all the trimmings is still well below a fully loaded S550 or BMW750i as those are much bigger cars with much better engines. Now if that to you is satisfactory after 11years then your expectations of Lexus are very low.
I like BMW but i can call them out on weak offerings.
The current 7 is a disappointment and im not a big fan of the new 5 either.
You clearly said V6 is better than V8, I thought you were referring to TT V8 like all of the LS competitors.
Unfortunately the Fsport model was the only one i saw at the show and Lexus obviously felt that was good enough representation. Legroom will not increase in luxury versions and V6 will not magically become a V8....
My point is that the top of the line LS500 with all the trimmings is still well below a fully loaded S550 or BMW750i as those are much bigger cars with much better engines. Now if that to you is satisfactory after 11years then your expectations of Lexus are very low.
04-13-18, 04:35 PM
#319
Well if you think a TT V6 is better than a TT V8 and you feel that Lexus has really done all it could after having the previous generation hang around for 11 years - you are definitely a die hard Lexus fan.
On the GS point - they need to further differentiate it from the ES therefore making it a really sporty 4door coupe with LC styling would not be so bad.
On the GS point - they need to further differentiate it from the ES therefore making it a really sporty 4door coupe with LC styling would not be so bad.
04-13-18, 04:55 PM
#320
Lexus Test Driver
^
I like BMW but i can call them out on weak offerings.
The current 7 is a disappointment and im not a big fan of the new 5 either.
You clearly said V6 is better than V8, I thought you were referring to TT V8 like all of the LS competitors.
Unfortunately the Fsport model was the only one i saw at the show and Lexus obviously felt that was good enough representation. Legroom will not increase in luxury versions and V6 will not magically become a V8....
My point is that the top of the line LS500 with all the trimmings is still well below a fully loaded S550 or BMW750i as those are much bigger cars with much better engines. Now if that to you is satisfactory after 11years then your expectations of Lexus are very low.
I like BMW but i can call them out on weak offerings.
The current 7 is a disappointment and im not a big fan of the new 5 either.
You clearly said V6 is better than V8, I thought you were referring to TT V8 like all of the LS competitors.
Unfortunately the Fsport model was the only one i saw at the show and Lexus obviously felt that was good enough representation. Legroom will not increase in luxury versions and V6 will not magically become a V8....
My point is that the top of the line LS500 with all the trimmings is still well below a fully loaded S550 or BMW750i as those are much bigger cars with much better engines. Now if that to you is satisfactory after 11years then your expectations of Lexus are very low.
Here's a few I stated before (not this thread): The Lexus IS should have came with the Turbo 4 since 2014. The Lexus IS should have came with the 10.3 screen in 2014 - but instead - they milked the profits and max the bezel just to keep the big screen for a refresh.
The Lexus ES, while I do like it, I think its a quite expensive re-skin Camry that can never replace the GS. Another reason why I want the GS to succeed. And I don't think the GS will succeed as a 4-door coupe based on the low German's sales volumes.
Nope. I was referring to V8 (NA V8). I'll be ridiculously insane to think a TTV6 is better than a TTV8.
I think Lexus's problem is the marketing team. Lexus tends to market the F-Sport models. They should have marketed the Lexus LS500 with Executive Package with Kirko Glass. However - they could have probably choose not to use that vehicle because of price and time to make.
A TTV6 is the replacement of the V8. A TTV6 can produce the same performance numbers as a V8 with better fuel efficiency. If we are talking about TTV8, then that's a different story.
I think you are talking about the M760i and the S560. But to your point - you can't compare the Lexus LS500 (fully loaded) to the S560 and M760i. Lexus don't have cars that compete in that range. And I'll admit, Lexus should if they want to expand bigger as a brand.
But back to my point - lets the M760i for example - this car starts at 156K with no options on it. This car with no options on it is 46K more than the Lexus LS with less luxury amenities. That's why they aren't comparable.
Chances are - the M760i will have low sales volume because of its price range. I think the Lexus LS500 will out-sell the 7 Series overall but will not out-sell the S-Class.
I agree, if they can steal some if the wicked styling cues from the LC500 and apply them to the 5GS, It will better differentiate the GS from the ES. I wouldn’t mind the GS becoming a Japanese Audi A7. I know BippuLexus is saying these cars sell 700 or so a month. But it would be nice to have a sick lowered roof coupé esque GS to cruise in. The hatch would be practically too. It’s not like the GS will ever be a sales leader over the E & 5er. They might as well make it stylish as hell and slightly more niche.
While I do want a 5GS as a car enthusiasts, I wouldn't want it as a share-holder of Toyota. It won't drive sales nor it will benefit the company anyway. That and also Toyota is massively conservative. They would unlikely build a 5GS based on a design (4-door coupe) that sells worst than the 4GS at its weakest point.
I think they might make a 5GS that's a LS500 light. Similar styling - with just less of everything. A detune TTV6 should help the 5GS's case.
04-14-18, 04:34 AM
#321
(1)
Notice how they say the 5LS is Panamera-like, but they don't really call the 5LS a 4 door Gran Coupe?
Ditto the 5GS - I suspect.
TMC can make the 5LS a true 4 door Gran Coupe, and they can make the 5GS a true 4 door Gran Coupe too - but they don't want to.
However, TMC is the richest auto manufacturer in the world with equity [assets less liabilities] of some $171 billion dollars.
TMC is all about money, and they want to stay that way.
Mercedes only sold 1,600+ full size luxury 2 door Gran Coupes last year in the AMG GT.
Mercedes only sold some 6,000+ midsize luxury 4 door Gran Coupes in the CLS last year.
BMW only sold some 3,000+ midsize 2 door & 4 door Gran Coupes in the 5 Series last year.
Audi only sold 4,800+ midsize A7 Fastbacks last year.
While it costs a bit of money to reskin and produce these 4 door Gran Coupes, not many are sold at all - more for image, but little profits.
Hence the new 5LS is lower and has a front mid engine for dynamics at the expense of interior space, however the 5LS is still much more practical than a 4 door Gran Coupe - to sell in much greater numbers to keep up TMC profits.
Ditto the forthcoming 5GS.
Like the old 2005-12 inclusive 3GS, the 5GS is likely to be a sports niche, but TMC being TMC, it will still be much more practical than a 4 door Gran Coupe - to sell in much greater numbers than CLS, 6 Series 4 doors and A7 Fastbacks.
The 2GS exceeded 30k/year at its peak on debut.
The 3GS exceeded 33k/year at its peak on debut.
The 4GS exceeded only 23k/year at its peak - at a time when E Class lifted its peak from 59k/year to 69k/year.
5GS doesn't have to do 7ES's job.
5GS only has to fulfil its own job, and at least get back to traditional 2GS/3GS's 30k+/year peak - at a time when 5 Series has been able to consistently maintain their peak of 56k+/year in the previous two generations, while the E Class has been able to raise their peak by 10K to 69k+/year.
(2)
However, another way to think of it is that TMC only has the one full size luxury sedan in the 5LS.
Mercedes and BMW etc on the other hand, have two full size luxury sedan body styles in the S Class/7 Series and the AGM GT/M8 4 door Gran Coupes.
Because the Germans have two separate body styles, their 4 door Gran Coupes can be much more sporty & more 4 door Gran Coupe-like than the one 5LS body style.
However, when it comes to midsize luxury, TMC has two body styles in the 7ES and 5GS.
Thus, here it is possible for the 5GS to be more 4 door Gran Coupe-like.
At the end of the day, TMC being TMC - the richest auto manufacturer in the world with the highest equity of $171 billion dollars - like the all new 5LS, I still suspect TMC will develop a sporty niche, but practical 5GS for considerably higher volume sales than the very impractical and cramped CLS and BMW 6 Series 4 door Gran Coupes - I'm not sure if the latter two models still only have 4 seat belts.
PS
Btw, the last two generations of 5 Series have been able to maintain their peak sales of 56k+/year.
While the last two generation of E Classes have been able to lift their peak sales from 59k+ to 69k+/year.
Don't forget that new lower midsize luxury player Genesis G80 is doing reasonably well too - peaking at 33k+/year on debut as Hyundai Genesis.
Thus, I don't believe that we should be saying something along the lines that this section of the market is shrinking markedly so the 5GS should be axed...
.
Notice how they say the 5LS is Panamera-like, but they don't really call the 5LS a 4 door Gran Coupe?
Ditto the 5GS - I suspect.
TMC can make the 5LS a true 4 door Gran Coupe, and they can make the 5GS a true 4 door Gran Coupe too - but they don't want to.
However, TMC is the richest auto manufacturer in the world with equity [assets less liabilities] of some $171 billion dollars.
TMC is all about money, and they want to stay that way.
Mercedes only sold 1,600+ full size luxury 2 door Gran Coupes last year in the AMG GT.
Mercedes only sold some 6,000+ midsize luxury 4 door Gran Coupes in the CLS last year.
BMW only sold some 3,000+ midsize 2 door & 4 door Gran Coupes in the 5 Series last year.
Audi only sold 4,800+ midsize A7 Fastbacks last year.
While it costs a bit of money to reskin and produce these 4 door Gran Coupes, not many are sold at all - more for image, but little profits.
Hence the new 5LS is lower and has a front mid engine for dynamics at the expense of interior space, however the 5LS is still much more practical than a 4 door Gran Coupe - to sell in much greater numbers to keep up TMC profits.
Ditto the forthcoming 5GS.
Like the old 2005-12 inclusive 3GS, the 5GS is likely to be a sports niche, but TMC being TMC, it will still be much more practical than a 4 door Gran Coupe - to sell in much greater numbers than CLS, 6 Series 4 doors and A7 Fastbacks.
The 2GS exceeded 30k/year at its peak on debut.
The 3GS exceeded 33k/year at its peak on debut.
The 4GS exceeded only 23k/year at its peak - at a time when E Class lifted its peak from 59k/year to 69k/year.
5GS doesn't have to do 7ES's job.
5GS only has to fulfil its own job, and at least get back to traditional 2GS/3GS's 30k+/year peak - at a time when 5 Series has been able to consistently maintain their peak of 56k+/year in the previous two generations, while the E Class has been able to raise their peak by 10K to 69k+/year.
(2)
However, another way to think of it is that TMC only has the one full size luxury sedan in the 5LS.
Mercedes and BMW etc on the other hand, have two full size luxury sedan body styles in the S Class/7 Series and the AGM GT/M8 4 door Gran Coupes.
Because the Germans have two separate body styles, their 4 door Gran Coupes can be much more sporty & more 4 door Gran Coupe-like than the one 5LS body style.
However, when it comes to midsize luxury, TMC has two body styles in the 7ES and 5GS.
Thus, here it is possible for the 5GS to be more 4 door Gran Coupe-like.
At the end of the day, TMC being TMC - the richest auto manufacturer in the world with the highest equity of $171 billion dollars - like the all new 5LS, I still suspect TMC will develop a sporty niche, but practical 5GS for considerably higher volume sales than the very impractical and cramped CLS and BMW 6 Series 4 door Gran Coupes - I'm not sure if the latter two models still only have 4 seat belts.
PS
Btw, the last two generations of 5 Series have been able to maintain their peak sales of 56k+/year.
While the last two generation of E Classes have been able to lift their peak sales from 59k+ to 69k+/year.
Don't forget that new lower midsize luxury player Genesis G80 is doing reasonably well too - peaking at 33k+/year on debut as Hyundai Genesis.
Thus, I don't believe that we should be saying something along the lines that this section of the market is shrinking markedly so the 5GS should be axed...
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 04-14-18 at 01:10 PM.
04-15-18, 06:58 AM
#322
Pole Position
(1)
Notice how they say the 5LS is Panamera-like, but they don't really call the 5LS a 4 door Gran Coupe?
Ditto the 5GS - I suspect.
TMC can make the 5LS a true 4 door Gran Coupe, and they can make the 5GS a true 4 door Gran Coupe too - but they don't want to.
However, TMC is the richest auto manufacturer in the world with equity [assets less liabilities] of some $171 billion dollars.
TMC is all about money, and they want to stay that way.
Mercedes only sold 1,600+ full size luxury 2 door Gran Coupes last year in the AMG GT.
Mercedes only sold some 6,000+ midsize luxury 4 door Gran Coupes in the CLS last year.
BMW only sold some 3,000+ midsize 2 door & 4 door Gran Coupes in the 5 Series last year.
Audi only sold 4,800+ midsize A7 Fastbacks last year.
While it costs a bit of money to reskin and produce these 4 door Gran Coupes, not many are sold at all - more for image, but little profits.
Hence the new 5LS is lower and has a front mid engine for dynamics at the expense of interior space, however the 5LS is still much more practical than a 4 door Gran Coupe - to sell in much greater numbers to keep up TMC profits.
Ditto the forthcoming 5GS.
Like the old 2005-12 inclusive 3GS, the 5GS is likely to be a sports niche, but TMC being TMC, it will still be much more practical than a 4 door Gran Coupe - to sell in much greater numbers than CLS, 6 Series 4 doors and A7 Fastbacks.
The 2GS exceeded 30k/year at its peak on debut.
The 3GS exceeded 33k/year at its peak on debut.
The 4GS exceeded only 23k/year at its peak - at a time when E Class lifted its peak from 59k/year to 69k/year.
5GS doesn't have to do 7ES's job.
5GS only has to fulfil its own job, and at least get back to traditional 2GS/3GS's 30k+/year peak - at a time when 5 Series has been able to consistently maintain their peak of 56k+/year in the previous two generations, while the E Class has been able to raise their peak by 10K to 69k+/year.
(2)
However, another way to think of it is that TMC only has the one full size luxury sedan in the 5LS.
Mercedes and BMW etc on the other hand, have two full size luxury sedan body styles in the S Class/7 Series and the AGM GT/M8 4 door Gran Coupes.
Because the Germans have two separate body styles, their 4 door Gran Coupes can be much more sporty & more 4 door Gran Coupe-like than the one 5LS body style.
However, when it comes to midsize luxury, TMC has two body styles in the 7ES and 5GS.
Thus, here it is possible for the 5GS to be more 4 door Gran Coupe-like.
At the end of the day, TMC being TMC - the richest auto manufacturer in the world with the highest equity of $171 billion dollars - like the all new 5LS, I still suspect TMC will develop a sporty niche, but practical 5GS for considerably higher volume sales than the very impractical and cramped CLS and BMW 6 Series 4 door Gran Coupes - I'm not sure if the latter two models still only have 4 seat belts.
PS
Btw, the last two generations of 5 Series have been able to maintain their peak sales of 56k+/year.
While the last two generation of E Classes have been able to lift their peak sales from 59k+ to 69k+/year.
Don't forget that new lower midsize luxury player Genesis G80 is doing reasonably well too - peaking at 33k+/year on debut as Hyundai Genesis.
Thus, I don't believe that we should be saying something along the lines that this section of the market is shrinking markedly so the 5GS should be axed...
.
Notice how they say the 5LS is Panamera-like, but they don't really call the 5LS a 4 door Gran Coupe?
Ditto the 5GS - I suspect.
TMC can make the 5LS a true 4 door Gran Coupe, and they can make the 5GS a true 4 door Gran Coupe too - but they don't want to.
However, TMC is the richest auto manufacturer in the world with equity [assets less liabilities] of some $171 billion dollars.
TMC is all about money, and they want to stay that way.
Mercedes only sold 1,600+ full size luxury 2 door Gran Coupes last year in the AMG GT.
Mercedes only sold some 6,000+ midsize luxury 4 door Gran Coupes in the CLS last year.
BMW only sold some 3,000+ midsize 2 door & 4 door Gran Coupes in the 5 Series last year.
Audi only sold 4,800+ midsize A7 Fastbacks last year.
While it costs a bit of money to reskin and produce these 4 door Gran Coupes, not many are sold at all - more for image, but little profits.
Hence the new 5LS is lower and has a front mid engine for dynamics at the expense of interior space, however the 5LS is still much more practical than a 4 door Gran Coupe - to sell in much greater numbers to keep up TMC profits.
Ditto the forthcoming 5GS.
Like the old 2005-12 inclusive 3GS, the 5GS is likely to be a sports niche, but TMC being TMC, it will still be much more practical than a 4 door Gran Coupe - to sell in much greater numbers than CLS, 6 Series 4 doors and A7 Fastbacks.
The 2GS exceeded 30k/year at its peak on debut.
The 3GS exceeded 33k/year at its peak on debut.
The 4GS exceeded only 23k/year at its peak - at a time when E Class lifted its peak from 59k/year to 69k/year.
5GS doesn't have to do 7ES's job.
5GS only has to fulfil its own job, and at least get back to traditional 2GS/3GS's 30k+/year peak - at a time when 5 Series has been able to consistently maintain their peak of 56k+/year in the previous two generations, while the E Class has been able to raise their peak by 10K to 69k+/year.
(2)
However, another way to think of it is that TMC only has the one full size luxury sedan in the 5LS.
Mercedes and BMW etc on the other hand, have two full size luxury sedan body styles in the S Class/7 Series and the AGM GT/M8 4 door Gran Coupes.
Because the Germans have two separate body styles, their 4 door Gran Coupes can be much more sporty & more 4 door Gran Coupe-like than the one 5LS body style.
However, when it comes to midsize luxury, TMC has two body styles in the 7ES and 5GS.
Thus, here it is possible for the 5GS to be more 4 door Gran Coupe-like.
At the end of the day, TMC being TMC - the richest auto manufacturer in the world with the highest equity of $171 billion dollars - like the all new 5LS, I still suspect TMC will develop a sporty niche, but practical 5GS for considerably higher volume sales than the very impractical and cramped CLS and BMW 6 Series 4 door Gran Coupes - I'm not sure if the latter two models still only have 4 seat belts.
PS
Btw, the last two generations of 5 Series have been able to maintain their peak sales of 56k+/year.
While the last two generation of E Classes have been able to lift their peak sales from 59k+ to 69k+/year.
Don't forget that new lower midsize luxury player Genesis G80 is doing reasonably well too - peaking at 33k+/year on debut as Hyundai Genesis.
Thus, I don't believe that we should be saying something along the lines that this section of the market is shrinking markedly so the 5GS should be axed...
.
04-15-18, 01:59 PM
#323
It debut in 2005 with only 14k/year, and by 2010 only 2k+/year were sold.
2nd gen debut with 8k/year, and last year the 2nd gen CLS sold just 1.8k.
By your definition of GS, then CLS must be axed too.
In truth, CLS is just a reskinned E Class; doesn't cost them that much to develop.
In the same way, a GS is only a reskinned overseas Toyota Crown; doesn't cost TMC that much to develop either, and the GS sells in considerably more volume than CLS.
Ditto the BMW 6 Series 4 door.
It debut with 9k, and last year sold only 3k - no axing here.
Afterall, it's only a reskinned 5 Series, and carries an image, yet doesn't cost that much to develop.
So too the Audi A7 - it's just a reskinned A6.
It debut with a paltry 8k, and last year, A7 sales were down to 4k+.
Sales is not everything.
It's also image.
F1 Racing costs Mercedes a ton.
The LFA costs a fair bit to develop, and the LC Coupe isn't that far behind in development costs - reskinning the GS, CLS, 6 Series and Audi A7/S7 is very cheap in comparison, yet much more sales volume, especially the GS.
One could take the GS to a suspension specialist down the road and aftermarket change the springing and damping rate ourselves.
I don't know if the GS will be axed globally, but I doubt it; just wait and see I guess...
04-15-18, 11:51 PM
#324
Lexus Test Driver
But look at Benz CLS etc.
It debut in 2005 with only 14k/year, and by 2010 only 2k+/year were sold.
2nd gen debut with 8k/year, and last year the 2nd gen CLS sold just 1.8k.
By your definition of GS, then CLS must be axed too.
In truth, CLS is just a reskinned E Class; doesn't cost them that much to develop.
In the same way, a GS is only a reskinned overseas Toyota Crown; doesn't cost TMC that much to develop either, and the GS sells in considerably more volume than CLS.
Ditto the BMW 6 Series 4 door.
It debut with 9k, and last year sold only 3k - no axing here.
Afterall, it's only a reskinned 5 Series, and carries an image, yet doesn't cost that much to develop.
So too the Audi A7 - it's just a reskinned A6.
It debut with a paltry 8k, and last year, A7 sales were down to 4k+.
Sales is not everything.
It's also image.
F1 Racing costs Mercedes a ton.
The LFA costs a fair bit to develop, and the LC Coupe isn't that far behind in development costs - reskinning the GS, CLS, 6 Series and Audi A7/S7 is very cheap in comparison, yet much more sales volume, especially the GS.
One could take the GS to a suspension specialist down the road and aftermarket change the springing and damping rate ourselves.
I don't know if the GS will be axed globally, but I doubt it; just wait and see I guess...
It debut in 2005 with only 14k/year, and by 2010 only 2k+/year were sold.
2nd gen debut with 8k/year, and last year the 2nd gen CLS sold just 1.8k.
By your definition of GS, then CLS must be axed too.
In truth, CLS is just a reskinned E Class; doesn't cost them that much to develop.
In the same way, a GS is only a reskinned overseas Toyota Crown; doesn't cost TMC that much to develop either, and the GS sells in considerably more volume than CLS.
Ditto the BMW 6 Series 4 door.
It debut with 9k, and last year sold only 3k - no axing here.
Afterall, it's only a reskinned 5 Series, and carries an image, yet doesn't cost that much to develop.
So too the Audi A7 - it's just a reskinned A6.
It debut with a paltry 8k, and last year, A7 sales were down to 4k+.
Sales is not everything.
It's also image.
F1 Racing costs Mercedes a ton.
The LFA costs a fair bit to develop, and the LC Coupe isn't that far behind in development costs - reskinning the GS, CLS, 6 Series and Audi A7/S7 is very cheap in comparison, yet much more sales volume, especially the GS.
One could take the GS to a suspension specialist down the road and aftermarket change the springing and damping rate ourselves.
I don't know if the GS will be axed globally, but I doubt it; just wait and see I guess...
Like you said, the GS is a re-skinned Toyota Crown. If the 2019 Toyota Crown is already released, chances are the Lexus GS will get redesigned for the 2020 year.
04-16-18, 06:14 AM
#325
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
that about sums it up. if the gs is canned, lexus really isn't in the game.
i don't think it will be, but they're only 'half' in the game anyway due to such a limited product line compared to the german brands *coupes, convertibles, sports cars, sportbacks, sedans, utes, race cars..."
i don't think it will be, but they're only 'half' in the game anyway due to such a limited product line compared to the german brands *coupes, convertibles, sports cars, sportbacks, sedans, utes, race cars..."
04-16-18, 06:37 AM
#326
Pole Position
But look at Benz CLS etc.
It debut in 2005 with only 14k/year, and by 2010 only 2k+/year were sold.
2nd gen debut with 8k/year, and last year the 2nd gen CLS sold just 1.8k.
By your definition of GS, then CLS must be axed too.
In truth, CLS is just a reskinned E Class; doesn't cost them that much to develop.
In the same way, a GS is only a reskinned overseas Toyota Crown; doesn't cost TMC that much to develop either, and the GS sells in considerably more volume than CLS.
Ditto the BMW 6 Series 4 door.
It debut with 9k, and last year sold only 3k - no axing here.
Afterall, it's only a reskinned 5 Series, and carries an image, yet doesn't cost that much to develop.
So too the Audi A7 - it's just a reskinned A6.
It debut with a paltry 8k, and last year, A7 sales were down to 4k+.
Sales is not everything.
It's also image.
F1 Racing costs Mercedes a ton.
The LFA costs a fair bit to develop, and the LC Coupe isn't that far behind in development costs - reskinning the GS, CLS, 6 Series and Audi A7/S7 is very cheap in comparison, yet much more sales volume, especially the GS.
One could take the GS to a suspension specialist down the road and aftermarket change the springing and damping rate ourselves.
I don't know if the GS will be axed globally, but I doubt it; just wait and see I guess...
It debut in 2005 with only 14k/year, and by 2010 only 2k+/year were sold.
2nd gen debut with 8k/year, and last year the 2nd gen CLS sold just 1.8k.
By your definition of GS, then CLS must be axed too.
In truth, CLS is just a reskinned E Class; doesn't cost them that much to develop.
In the same way, a GS is only a reskinned overseas Toyota Crown; doesn't cost TMC that much to develop either, and the GS sells in considerably more volume than CLS.
Ditto the BMW 6 Series 4 door.
It debut with 9k, and last year sold only 3k - no axing here.
Afterall, it's only a reskinned 5 Series, and carries an image, yet doesn't cost that much to develop.
So too the Audi A7 - it's just a reskinned A6.
It debut with a paltry 8k, and last year, A7 sales were down to 4k+.
Sales is not everything.
It's also image.
F1 Racing costs Mercedes a ton.
The LFA costs a fair bit to develop, and the LC Coupe isn't that far behind in development costs - reskinning the GS, CLS, 6 Series and Audi A7/S7 is very cheap in comparison, yet much more sales volume, especially the GS.
One could take the GS to a suspension specialist down the road and aftermarket change the springing and damping rate ourselves.
I don't know if the GS will be axed globally, but I doubt it; just wait and see I guess...
04-16-18, 06:40 AM
#327
Pole Position
that about sums it up. if the gs is canned, lexus really isn't in the game.
i don't think it will be, but they're only 'half' in the game anyway due to such a limited product line compared to the german brands *coupes, convertibles, sports cars, sportbacks, sedans, utes, race cars..."
i don't think it will be, but they're only 'half' in the game anyway due to such a limited product line compared to the german brands *coupes, convertibles, sports cars, sportbacks, sedans, utes, race cars..."
04-16-18, 10:52 AM
#328
Lexus Test Driver
that about sums it up. if the gs is canned, lexus really isn't in the game.
i don't think it will be, but they're only 'half' in the game anyway due to such a limited product line compared to the german brands *coupes, convertibles, sports cars, sportbacks, sedans, utes, race cars..."
i don't think it will be, but they're only 'half' in the game anyway due to such a limited product line compared to the german brands *coupes, convertibles, sports cars, sportbacks, sedans, utes, race cars..."
Lexus is a fairly new company compared to the MB/BMW/Audi. Give Lexus time and they'll increase their vehicle options.
Last edited by BippuLexus; 04-16-18 at 10:57 AM.
04-16-18, 11:39 AM
#329
Lexus Test Driver
^
Lexus was much more established in US market than Audi.
Nobody would touch any Audi in the 90s when Lexus became a household name.
The Original R8 and other performance Audis like the TT, S4, S5, S6 and S8 with the V10 really raised the profile of the brand. Then Audi had great timing with Q7 and Q5.
They have really replaced Lexus in many ways plus they are extremely popular in China.
Lexus was much more established in US market than Audi.
Nobody would touch any Audi in the 90s when Lexus became a household name.
The Original R8 and other performance Audis like the TT, S4, S5, S6 and S8 with the V10 really raised the profile of the brand. Then Audi had great timing with Q7 and Q5.
They have really replaced Lexus in many ways plus they are extremely popular in China.
04-16-18, 11:41 AM
#330
drives cars
What? Europe buys twice as many CLS's as the US while having just over twice as many people. Doesn't that mean the CLS is similarly popular in each region? Sorry, not trying to pick nits, just trying to understand your point.