It works both ways.
Just because you like it, does not make it fact either.

Wouldn't it be you who is in the minority, as 4GS sales fell to a peak of only some 23k units/year USA, when its predecessor the 3GS achieved peak sales of 33k/year USA?
And that was achieved at a time when 2010-17 5 Series maintained their peak sales of 57k/yr USA relative to its 2003-10 predecessor's peak of the same 57k/year,
In the same period of time, the 2009-16 E Class increased its 2002-09 peak sales from 59k/year to a whopping 69k/year.

Even 5LS sales have crashed, with July's figures to be released in 12 days, and this is at a time when the current model S Class debut averaging over 2k/month.

Do you realize 4GS sales went down from 3GS, when 5 Series maintained its sales, and E Class increased its sales - all in the same period of time?

 

I'm not sure if this is true, because the previous generation of ES/GS like 2006-12 5ES & 2005-12 3GS - both models sold well.
Also, the 1996-01 3ES/2001-06 4ES and 1998-05 2GS - both ES and GS sold well too.

For some reason whatever, 4GS fell relative to its predecessors.

If I'm not wrong, the V8 sold in only small numbers.
2.0T is the way to the future, like it or not.
IMO, a lower price is not needed.

IMO, 4GS reverted to the old tall & boxy spacious practical design, when the market swung back to 3GS's low rounded swoopy design - hence sales down.
IMO, it needs to be better styled - like the forthcoming low swoopy 7ES...
.

 

As I have responded ad nauseam, sedan sales in general are much softer than they were when the 3GS was out.

And there was no 2012 3GS.

 

This is absolutely true of Toyota Motor Corp's current position.
They have the highest wealth in some US$181 billion dollars in equity, and they want to continue increasing that wealth, at the expense of mechanically inferior FWD-based vehicles.
In the long term, the cheap FWD-based designs will damage Lexus' reputation relative to the E Class and 5 Series, as Benz and BMW dealers point to 7ES's FWD-based platform with shorter wheelbase and cheap single lower link front MacPherson strut suspension.

 

I count in calendar year, and not in Model Year; the two are different.
Ad nauseam, 2012 has just begun, and a brand new February 2012 4GS is a 2013 4GS for marketing reasons popularized by the late Alfred P. Sloan of GM.

Fact.
The 4GS sales era was NOT softer than 3GS sales era.
Because 5 Series maintained its peak sales of 57k/year.
While E Class actually increased its peak sales from 59k to 69k/year!
Look up the sales stats for yourself.

 

What if Lexus said it's time to slay Nissan, and put BMW out of this segment (the 5 is not that great)...some crazy plain jane GS765 (2.5 liter turbo 4, just joking), with a V8, no AWD, and real performance, not just badges. How do they know that nobody will buy it, until they make it? Bring back the glory that was 1998!

 

There are rumours that next gen Jaguar XJ is EV, and that next gen 2020-27 S Class will be available in EV.

Hence I suspect 5GS is being delayed for release till 2020/2021/2022/2023 as a 5GSe EV.

Buyers wishing ICE will be steered to 7ES...

 

Well, the industry counts in model years so...

Just because BMW and Mercedes were able to maintain sales doesn't mean that there was/is not a shift towards crossovers, and that one of the reasons why 4GS sales are softer is due to that shift. Lexus sales have always been more volatile compared to BMW and Mercedes, and remember that the E Class has a sedan with many variations, a coupe, a convertible and a wagon...

 

Part of it is, Lexus customers are highly loyal. Lexus has more crossover offerings now, and people generally buy more crossovers. So some of the existing GS buyers might have defected (gasp!) to an RX, NX, etc. Even some of the potential buyers of the GS from a few years back might have had a change of heart thanks to A) the new styling of the GS, which seems to be received particularly poorly by GS-owner-would-bes, and B) the sporty direction that Lexus has gone with its sedans of late.

Plus, I don't know if it's just me, but it seems to me that people are even more brand-obsessed than I remember them being 10 years ago. You have to look like you're somebody, and of course Benz and Bimmer are the first two luxury marques that come to mind for "I made it" cars.

The styling is a weird thing to observe though. Some people hate it, but some think it looks great. For me it was neither - I think it works better in-person than in photos, and I appreciate it more now after seeing more of the new styling in the wild. Nonetheless, I have a coworker who has a 2009 GS 350, which he's a huge fan of. He went in to look at the newer models and said he would have to get the pre-refresh model of the 4GS because the looks of the new one were "weird" to him. The styling does matter.

 

To me, it seems like prior to the 4th gen GS, the ES and GS were separated more than they are now, so I see that as the reason why the ES didn't cannibalize the GS sales in years prior.

The 4th gen GS and the 6th gen ES came out pretty close to each other. The styling of these two sedans, at least to me, was closer than it had ever been before, and the ES was bumped up to the Avalon size, so it now offered a lot more interior room than the GS. That was never the case before.

So for the first time in the history of these two sedans, the ES offered similar styling as the GS, combined with a larger interior, similar features, but at a lower price.

 

Some parts of the industry use Model Years.
However, other parts like Workshop Manuals and Wikipedia etc count in actual Calendar Years.

Compliance Plates are also measured in actual Calendar Years because Compliance Plate build date years years match Calendar Years.

Model Years are used by salesmen to stimulate sales.
While actual Calendar Years are used by experts like Workshop Manuals & Wikipedia etc to match actual Compliance Plate build dates for precision & accuracy.

It is far more accurate to use Calendar Year & true Compliance Plate build date, than referring to a February 2018 5LS as a 2019 5LS - to stimulate consumers to purchase a new model.

It amazes me how February has only just begun, and sales guys are already referring to a February 2018 5LS as a 2019 5LS!
2018 had only just begun, yet 2019 is here already?
That's salesmen for you!

Quoting a range in years is even more accurate again - than quoting by year alone.
For example, a 2006 LS even by true compliance plate build date could be either an XF30 3LS or an XF40 4LS.
A 2000-06 actual year range would obviously indicate the XF30 3LS!

Steve, regardless of the classification technique used, we don't have to be too **** or pedantic, because the "year range" should even more accurately indicate which series is being referred to.


The old 2003-10 5th gen E60 5 Series peak sales at 56k+ in 2006, while the successor 2010-17 6th gen F10 5 Series raised that peak to 60k+ units/year USA 2012, with a matching 56K+ in 2013.
No point making excuses for 2005-12 S190 3GS's peak of 33k+ falling to the 2012-19 L10 4GS's peak of only 23k+.

Stats are stats.
Got to take it like a man.
Sales figures are what they are.
It's up to Lexus Feedback Division to work out what actually went wrong.
.

 

I posted this in the Future of Lexus 2018 thread, but this does apply here. The AWD ES should be debuting in Europe around December of this year, North America should follow sometime next year. Probably not a good sign for the GS as we know it. Ideally it'll be on hiatus and it gets re-purposed as a niche powertrain or body-style in the future. Fingers crossed though I won't hold my breath.

 

Yep, I agree. AWD ES means no more GS.

 

Looking into the future of the Lexus GS line of models, I wouldn't be at all surprized if the GS reincarnated in a few years time, like 2020 or beyond - as a 5GS EV, similar to Jaguar's forthcoming XJ EV, or the next generation 2020-27 S Class which is rumored to be available in EV...

 

E class sales now includes the coupes though, whereas the previous generations E class sales #'s were sedan only, and they reported the CLK/CLS coupes sales separately.