Lexus is something else (+)
06-27-18, 08:08 AM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
I'm going to go against the grain and say I actually don't have an issue with what Johnhav430 is doing. If they are going to send out these mass marketing materials/emails than they have to deal with people like Johnhav430. I am so tired of being inundated with junk mail/emails that I say screw them if they are going to do that. I am actually happy that some time is being wasted by them because I am tired of them wasting my time deleting emails and throwing out mailers, etc. If you are going to market that way, you have to deal with the issues that go along with it. I look at it the same way as if I accepted a "free" vacation as long as I sit through a 30 minute time share presentation knowing that I am not going to buy a time share. They know not everyone is going to buy one but they still use those same marketing tactics because someone will buy one. They should know what casting such a large net will produce so I have no sympathy for them or their employees.
Excellent response from the point of view of simple common sense........though, in general, I believe in the Golden Rule, and in not returning an eye for an eye.
06-27-18, 08:13 AM
#32
Not un-ethical in my mind.
I am less likely to do it for a variety of reasons, but have no issue with anyone else doing it.
There's lots of different kinds of marketing. (not an expert) I think this one is a broad shallow approach. Cast a lot of seeds so a few will grow. Get lots of people in and exposed to the product. Few will buy today, some may buy in the future. Some may tell their friends, hey I drove something cool last week and their friends may eventually buy. Most of the seeds never take root. I think the marketing team is well aware of that.
There are also highly targeted campaigns which are more expensive per person, but have higher success %. All the kinds have value in different ways.
I am less likely to do it for a variety of reasons, but have no issue with anyone else doing it.
There's lots of different kinds of marketing. (not an expert) I think this one is a broad shallow approach. Cast a lot of seeds so a few will grow. Get lots of people in and exposed to the product. Few will buy today, some may buy in the future. Some may tell their friends, hey I drove something cool last week and their friends may eventually buy. Most of the seeds never take root. I think the marketing team is well aware of that.
There are also highly targeted campaigns which are more expensive per person, but have higher success %. All the kinds have value in different ways.
06-27-18, 08:47 AM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
The feeling I get is that the new LS500 is a flop. I said earlier in another thread, if there was ever a longstanding Lexus to be cancelled, the new LS would be it. That said, one needs to consider the worldwide sales of the LS to know for sure as it appears it was designed for the world markets over the US market. In addition, it is built off the GA-L platform with the LC and I assume others future models so it needs to be looked at as a whole to determine if it is a success story.
06-27-18, 09:21 AM
#35
See if I summarize correctly, although I don't share that opinion.
Accepting a gift from the dealer under false pretenses. Absolutely zero intent to buy now, near future, ever. Wastes their money and time.
Accepting a gift from the dealer under false pretenses. Absolutely zero intent to buy now, near future, ever. Wastes their money and time.
06-27-18, 09:33 AM
#36
mobile and online gaming actually does something very similar to this as one normal revenue stream.
User is "paid" gaming currency in exchange for electing to watch an ad.
User doesn't care about the ad. They just want currency. They might even look away or mute sound until it's over.
Advertising company probably expects <1% of users being "influenced" by the ad, but spam enough users it is cost effective.
In this case there is a middle player, the software company between the advertiser and user. Other than that but I think the scenario is pretty similar.
In the case of the dealership, if they failed to "influence" guests in the way they hoped, that's on them. They paid for the time and opportunity to influence the guests. They got what they paid for, Time and Opportunity.
Time share companies pay well (cash and vacations) for the time and opportunity to influence you. In their case though, they are masterful at converting those opportunities. Even if you told them 100% you weren't buying and couldn't afford it, they would welcome you on a trip. And then laugh at your arrogance for thinking you wouldn't bend to their charms eventually.
User is "paid" gaming currency in exchange for electing to watch an ad.
User doesn't care about the ad. They just want currency. They might even look away or mute sound until it's over.
Advertising company probably expects <1% of users being "influenced" by the ad, but spam enough users it is cost effective.
In this case there is a middle player, the software company between the advertiser and user. Other than that but I think the scenario is pretty similar.
In the case of the dealership, if they failed to "influence" guests in the way they hoped, that's on them. They paid for the time and opportunity to influence the guests. They got what they paid for, Time and Opportunity.
Time share companies pay well (cash and vacations) for the time and opportunity to influence you. In their case though, they are masterful at converting those opportunities. Even if you told them 100% you weren't buying and couldn't afford it, they would welcome you on a trip. And then laugh at your arrogance for thinking you wouldn't bend to their charms eventually.
06-27-18, 09:35 AM
#37
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I am not one to spend 50k on a whim, but I did in 2006. I saw a 2007 BMW 335i convertible on the A1A in Ft. Lauderdale, while on a business trip. I thought it was the most beautiful thing I had seen in 10 years, and said to my colleague, that thing is out already? I knew the new coupe was coming, but had never seen one on the road. This is Sep 2006.
I test drove it with no premium, and had no intention of buying it. That was a friday and I was told no dealer in the nation has one available for sale, it's a 8-10 week wait, if you can get an allocation. List price.
By the following Monday? I was running by the dealership and put a deposit. They matched BMW Manhattan with $1800 off (on a car they told me I could order in January, not September, but I didn't say that). And a sale was made.
Business knows how to sell, and they know a sale is not made, until the money is in the bank. Life is very dynamic, some sure things fail, and others succeed when unexpected. I can't imagine seeing everything as so black and white as some do.
06-27-18, 10:07 AM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
mobile and online gaming actually does something very similar to this as one normal revenue stream.
User is "paid" gaming currency in exchange for electing to watch an ad.
User doesn't care about the ad. They just want currency. They might even look away or mute sound until it's over.
Advertising company probably expects <1% of users being "influenced" by the ad, but spam enough users it is cost effective.
In this case there is a middle player, the software company between the advertiser and user. Other than that but I think the scenario is pretty similar.
In the case of the dealership, if they failed to "influence" guests in the way they hoped, that's on them. They paid for the time and opportunity to influence the guests. They got what they paid for, Time and Opportunity.
Time share companies pay well (cash and vacations) for the time and opportunity to influence you. In their case though, they are masterful at converting those opportunities. Even if you told them 100% you weren't buying and couldn't afford it, they would welcome you on a trip. And then laugh at your arrogance for thinking you wouldn't bend to their charms eventually.
User is "paid" gaming currency in exchange for electing to watch an ad.
User doesn't care about the ad. They just want currency. They might even look away or mute sound until it's over.
Advertising company probably expects <1% of users being "influenced" by the ad, but spam enough users it is cost effective.
In this case there is a middle player, the software company between the advertiser and user. Other than that but I think the scenario is pretty similar.
In the case of the dealership, if they failed to "influence" guests in the way they hoped, that's on them. They paid for the time and opportunity to influence the guests. They got what they paid for, Time and Opportunity.
Time share companies pay well (cash and vacations) for the time and opportunity to influence you. In their case though, they are masterful at converting those opportunities. Even if you told them 100% you weren't buying and couldn't afford it, they would welcome you on a trip. And then laugh at your arrogance for thinking you wouldn't bend to their charms eventually.
06-27-18, 11:21 AM
#39
Some say because the person accepting the card had no intention to buy, that was unethical. Abusing the generosity of the dealer. I understand why they say that, and can respect that position. I just disagree. The dealer got that persons time and attention. I think that's all they expect. No harm or foul to anyone.
06-27-18, 11:32 AM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
Its one thing to go out to dinner and then decide doing business together isn't a good fit. If your boss has a vendor buy you and him dinner at the Capital Grille and he knows he will absolutely not do business with him regardless of what he learns at the dinner, then sorry but he's an a-hole.
I did a $100 gift card for Audi, and I had no intention either of buying an A6. $100 gift card with BMW, no intention of buying a 750. I took a 750 home for a weekend to try it out, no intention of buying it. For those of you out there who think I am unethical, well, again jmo, you really don't have a good feel for how marketing and business is won.
Its not "unethical", what it shows is a lack of class IMHO. Whats at issue is you being adamant that you will NOT buy the product before expending the time and resources of those who are trying to sell it. What a waste of everybody's time.
My rhetorical question to you, would be if you interface with external clients, or not, in your line of work.
As for the reviews, people like Doug Demuro are upfront with the dealers they are going to do a review. They don't have a salesperson there sitting in the car waiting for him to be done. When I go drive cars I am 100% upfront that I'm just curious and I'm not in the market, 80% of the time they just let me drive it alone, the other 20% they come but they know upfront.
That salesman might have missed a customer they could have actually sold a car to while he was out riding around with you with no change to sell you a car. THATS whats not right about it. If you've never worked in 100% commissioned sales or been in business for yourself you just don't get it. The guy who rode with you on that worthless test drive isn't getting paid to do that.
Last edited by SW17LS; 06-27-18 at 11:40 AM.
06-27-18, 11:42 AM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
Sorry, I'm not objecting. I was pointing out there are lots of scenarios where companies trade things of value (like visa cards) for someone's time and attention (an advertising focused test drive). I don't think either party is taking advantage or being unethical. They both get something of value.
Some say because the person accepting the card had no intention to buy, that was unethical. Abusing the generosity of the dealer. I understand why they say that, and can respect that position. I just disagree. The dealer got that persons time and attention. I think that's all they expect. No harm or foul to anyone.
Some say because the person accepting the card had no intention to buy, that was unethical. Abusing the generosity of the dealer. I understand why they say that, and can respect that position. I just disagree. The dealer got that persons time and attention. I think that's all they expect. No harm or foul to anyone.
06-27-18, 11:45 AM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
Not a coupon guy either, as an example.
06-27-18, 11:48 AM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
06-27-18, 11:55 AM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
Driving to a dealership, driving a car I don't have any interest in, sitting around and being sold by the salesman, being introduced to the sales manager, waiting around for them to get a card and activate it, and then driving home just isn't worth $50-$100 to me.
06-27-18, 11:58 AM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
Like I said, good for you. Glad you feel that way.