jrmckinley

Interesting potential debate on the definition of an enthusiast. Does an enthusiast have to own or pursue owning certain types of cars? Do they have to be knowledgeable of different engine specs, etc? Could someone who only owns a 20 year old clunker van but is very knowledgeable on all makes/models, participates in some form of racing or competition with someone else's car, understands technical and specification data on cars & engines, etc. be an enthusiast? I'd argue anyone who spends time to learn at very deep levels on any subject that they are an "enthusiast" about that subject. If someone asked me "are you a car guy?" I don't really know how I would respond. I love cars and can tell you with close to 100% accuracy which car is behind me at night based on the headlights I see in my rear view mirror. I don't understand much at all as it pertains to engines nor am I even remotely competent mechanically to fix things. I don't know sophisticated driving techniques for sports cars but I love to really drive a sports car and have done a handful of exotic car track experiences and performed very well compared to others in the group. I only buy used cars and hang onto them for very long periods of time. So I'd describe myself as someone who "loves cars" from a design and feature perspective, but when I talk to other folks who describe themselves as "car guys" - including lots and lots of folks on this forum - I discover how little I actually know. Maybe those are the enthusiasts and I'm just someone who appreciates the aesthetic elements of cars? I'm the same way with watches. I have a handful of nice watches that get some attention when I wear them. Some people will strike up conversations and tell me about the sophistication of the movement of the watch. For me, I just love the way the fashion element of watches and have no interest in the movement. Maybe I'm not technically a "watch guy" either..

EDIT: I am using the term "car guy" because I'm male - not trying to exclude women from the conversation.

Toys4RJill

jrmckinley

I have to give you credit - in several threads I recall over the last year or so I've seen you openly acknowledge being wrong, apologize, and also openly accept someone else's point of view (which you did in this thread about 10 posts ago). Not many people seem to own up to things like this anymore. I do think sometimes your writing style may come across differently than how you intend and therefore it gets interpreted in a manner you may not understand. I take some of your posts one way and then see later in the thread that maybe you weren't meaning to come across as "harsh" or "direct" as I originally thought. Just my $.02 but I definitely think there are some classic examples, just like emails, where the written word comes across very differently than how one intended. I also see this sometimes when English is a 2nd language and how someone attempts to translate things over comes across very harsh or direct.

Nonetheless, kudos for being a big enough person to see the other side and not have to feel right 100% of the time.

Toys4RJill

jrmckinley

Well your 4Runner is potentially more "fun" than a Honda Civic if you like to do things like go camping along a trail that a car couldn't access. I've never seen Toyota marketing the 4Runner as "fun" in a definition of being fun to drive. It may be fun to own because it may give you access to explore places that you couldn't in a traditional car. I understand what you're saying about marketing's role - however the "fun factor" I see in a TV commercial is not going to over-ride the experience/sensation I get when I actually drive the car. If Honda had all of their commercials about a sport Civic model showing people really pushing the car and driving it hard on a winding road ("fun" in one respect) I would probably look back at those commercials and feel Honda missed the mark after driving the car. Projecting luxury is no different- if a brand promotes a car as being highly luxurious and then you sit in it and see cheap materials, the doors don't feel solid when they close, etc. - what are you going to believe? The commercial or your own senses and instincts? Marketing's job is to project an image that gets you to the dealership to give the brand a chance. They also act in helping define or re-define the overall image of the brand - you're seeing re-defining of Wells Fargo and, frankly, lots of Toyota and Lexus products as we speak (Avalon, LS, etc).

hawtlawyer

An S Class is intimidating? Never even remotely thought that. Neither the S Class or the LS is my thing, but gun to the head and spending MY money, I'd take a Lexus every time. If I had someone else's money, I'd choose the Mercedes. Just prefer the exterior more. In fact, I think Mercedes and Jaguar have some of the most beautiful cars (Although the new LS is fire), but their reliability pales next to a Lexus. I know the original poster said disregard reliability , but that is the main reason I will never buy Mercedes again. I've had 4 Lexus and never paid for a repair. One Mercedes and it stayed in the shop. Kept the POS a year and a half, and traded it in for an SC 430. I will never buy a car that leaves me stranded. And btw, when I was stranded at the Mercedes dealership because of that POS, it was the Lexus salesperson who offered to have me picked up and driven home (I had to cancel my appointment with him because the Mercedes broke down). Now that is service!

FatherTo1

Very interesting responses in this thread. I think it is natural to feel a little outclassed next to an S. I dont know if I would feel intimidated, I am not drag racing my LS against the S next to me after all. I do perceive the S as "better" in terms of prestige and power, but that's expected since it does carry a heftier premium. In my mind, it isn't so much intimidation as just being in a slightly higher class. If reliability was a non-factor then I would have went with an S and I really like the styling since 2014. All factors considered though, I am plenty comfortable and self-assured while sitting in my LS next to an S. I can appreciate what the S offers and acknowledge that it doesn't check all the boxes for me. S, LS, A8 are all very nice cars. For some reason I'm not as impressed with the 7-series. I wouldn't mind owning a Z8 in my automotive fantasies though.

jrmckinley

That is an absolutely brilliant move by the Lexus sales person.

hawtlawyer

Absofreakinglutely! #Lexusforlife

FatherTo1

As a parallel, I wonder if 460 owners are intimidated next to a 600hL? Or does an ES/GS owner feel inferior or inadequate next to an LS on the road?

jrmckinley

Yeah, how could you not be after that? The psychological aspect of what he did is so powerful that I can't imagine how you could leave the brand. Lexus rescued you from the brand that abandoned you...! Incredible.

mmarshall

Maybe a Toyota Prius LOL.

hawtlawyer

interesting question. My first "fancy" car was an ES. I was just so happy to have a nice car, I could care less what others had. My second was the SC430, which I think was the top of the line at the time. So no inferiority or superiority complex. My third was GX 460, which I still have. I was a new mom and just happy to have the additional space. Too overwhelmed to feel insecure. Lol. Now I have the new LC 500. Ah, nothing compared to it!!! You feel like a boss in that car!!!

Toys4RJill

Yes, I agree with what you are saying. I think "fun factor" can be defined in many different ways, my 4Runner towing a camper could be fun for example. Where I comment on the "Fun" being overdone by people, especially journalists (who likely will never buy the car) is that some cars are supposed to be practical, easy to use and were never designed for taking the curves or blazing down the highway. < this is what most people buy, yet the magazines and so called "enthusiasts" push the sport models such a two seat roadster etc, but at the same time they pan the boring model. My Corolla is boring as hell, its cheap, easy to use, maintain as well as drive, it weight 2700lbs and is light as can be. Yet our Matrix XRS with the 2.5, 5 speed, sport suspension as well as AA traction Michelin Pilot Sport tires is supposed to deliver a level of excitement I guess. The Matrix is more of a chore to drive.

Toys4RJill