Hello there, this is my first post on this forum.

Obviously, I'm a gear head just like most of you. I'm looking to downsize and payoff some serious debt for the next 3-5yrs. I own from new, a 06' BMW 650 manual with 122k miles. It's beginning to show signs that it's gonna need serious repair, so I want to sell that and get a Toyota, erm I mean Lexus.

Just kidding,,,, every Lexus that I've driven/ridden in was fantastic! I do appreciate and respect Lexus for being #1.

Initially I was thinking Camry V6 (I need a BIG engine b/c I tow my race bike to the track ~800lb total) but then realized I can get an older Lexus LS/ES/GS for"about" the same money. I'm considering an ES350 or a LS430, I've not looked into the GS (I'm not sure what the point of that car is? Is it truly M5 sporty?) or any other Lexus model.

A part of me still wants to drive a V8 so I'm preferring the LS, but I like the smaller and more maneuverable ES. I don't need sporty, I want Lexus comfort, luxury and isolation. Probably that's why I'm not liking the GS, b/c I think it has a sporty ride (not comfy), am I wrong?

I'm not in a rush to purchase. I'm looking for a pampered (not necessarily low mileage), 1 or two owner, religiously maintained car. But being a nerd and using wikipedia, I discovered that in the model yrs there are slight variations. Example; in 2004 the LS went from 5spd to 6spd tranny. Are there any golden nuggets of info pertaining to the LS and ES models yrs. Which yrs, models etc to get and which to avoid?

Is there a BIG difference btwn the 5spd and 6spd tranny's? What are the pro&con's of GS when compared to the ES and LS lines? Also are there any options, years or anything else I should avoid?

Thanks in advance for your input, Cheers!

 

My thoughts as a BMW owner (335i 6-manual), is that there is a sacrifice in the way the vehicles drive, when going to a Lexus. Maybe my scenario is extreme having picked up a 2006 LS430 to use daily, as it's not a vehicle that was designed for handling/road feel.

I think you will want to definitely entertain the idea of a V8, since you have one now. If it's a 3UZ-FE like mine, I can vouch that it's been 2 yrs. of trouble-free daily driving, almost nothing to it. Mine has a timing belt so that job is 7 yr./90k and $750-$900 at an indie, $1800 at Lexus, or as many do here, DIY.

Also, I suppose you'll just have to bite the bullet with an auto. As far as the 6 speed, I don't even give it much thought, have never driven a 5 spd v. 6 spd auto back to back. It's just there, and seems to get into higher gears quite rapidly, confused between 1-2. I have learned from my travels that with the 2005+ it's much harder to DIY a tranny drain/fill, no dipstick, different procedure. This would be no different than any other Toyota product.

My crystal ball says the GS430 might be your best fit, but we won't know until you try them out. Good luck!

 

Welcome to the Club Lexus forum. You have lots of great questions and options you're considering. I have been in a similar situation over a year ago and this forum is a great way to learn about ES/GS/LS cars and what's happening. Local car shows are a cool way to get a feel for the whole new and used car line up.

Going the used route will put the car depreciation to your advantage. There's plenty of cars around 25-40k miles so you can take your pick of what's the best available.

LS may be too big for most with the GS squeezed in between the ES/GS/LS models. The upcoming ES redesign inches forward as an alternative to the flagship with a more reasonable price. Who knows what will happen to GS and the niche sedan market.

I started looking seriously at LS430's because of pricing. It's from the era before smartphones w GPS became standard. Only you can decide what amount of tech you want. You can be locked in time or get current with it.

We're in an era where tech is complementing the driving experience and Lexus is taking note.

2012 LS 460 and newer, 2013 GS and newer, and 2015 and newer ES can narrow your options quite a bit. The magic year with enhanced safety features becoming standard is in the 2016's, which is the sweet spot year for all 3 lines.
As it stands, I'm intrigued by the ES and what refinements they will do and willing to wait it out for 3-4 years. The SUV and electrification options will overwhelm us with fun choices. It's clear that smartphones wont go away anytime soon. I do have my sights on a particular LS460 combination and face with a "too big of a car debate" every time. It's funny how SUV's have taken over the larger 'car' experience for the same footprint.

At the end of the day, you got to love the car and enjoy driving it. It will cost you money as a disposable expense so know your limit (payment + insurance) you can work with. Some can afford $1k/month to let go on cars... others like to keep it under $500 and not be too locked into a depreciating asset. It's too hard to nitpick over every detail. Otherwise don't bother with it.

 

It really depends on your budget. A '13-'18 GS F-Sport may actually be a great fit for you if a solid mix of sport and luxury is important to you. An LS tips much more onto the side of luxury and is much larger and more comfortable than the GS.

 

 

For the heck of it I punched 650i into kbb, did not specify equipment and chose VG condition. The value came back at $5,800. I always say when the prices are low, there is a good chance the intrinsic value of the vehicle is higher. In other words why not drive the 650 and see what happens. 12 mos. later, maybe nothing. Those are 12 mos. of enjoying the 650. My cousin drove around for 30k with a water pump and coolant in the back of his 06 530 wagon, until he couldn't take it anymore and he changed it. He said just this past weekend he bets it could have gone another 30-50k or more, he shouldn't have changed it proactively. Since this 650 was owned since new, like the 335 to me, you know everything about it, nothing is obscure. I'd keep it and enjoy the ride if it were me...

 

Hey, thx for the advice, but you see, I've been listening to Dave Ramsey so my attitude's changed about money. It's not that I can't spend $$ on cars, it's I would rather chose not to (so I can funnel that $$ to my other vices, hehehe). Btw, do u know how much $500 every month from 25-55yrs is? Much like popping a zit, I would rather pay for it all at once and be done with it. So I've decided to get the cheapest most reliable car that will satisfy my needs.

It's got to be comfortable. Someone said something about handling and road feel. I live in So Cal, with the roads we have here, believe me, you want the LEAST handling and road feel.

It's got to be reliable. I'm rough on cars, my beemer has seen top speed a few times, 2 track days and once I got it airborne,, yeah, all 4 wheels!! I've got a local indie who works for a discounted fee, but sheesh bmw parts are expensive, is it the same with lexus?

And it's got to be "road trip" worthy. I go camping, carry lots of gear&ppl and tow a motorbike.

I also considered the LS460, but I read that the quality of leather, interior, etc went south. A lot like the W220 Mercedes, but probably no where near as bad. And since they've been making the LS430 from 2000 to 06, and Lexus cars keep their value like ****'s, why not an earlier model with less miles for less money? Seems like a win win.

With regard to cars and tech, I think it's cool that there's a new dimension in automobiles these days with apple carplay or whatever,,, but it is coming at a cost. Don't kid urself, auto manufacturers work on tight budget. If money is now being spent on apps and cell phone integration well you're not getting that limited slip diff, or a dual clutch trans or turbo/supercharger. Tech on cars is becoming lipstick on a pig, well in some cases.

In fact, if done wrongly (tech integration) it can be a deterrent. See BMW idrive or the systems that use a mouse pad. example; lexus es350 w/rear view cam, it removes the buttons for fan spd. so every time to get to fan speed you need to press other buttons, to get to that button? Stupid **** like that would annoy me more than aesthetics.

Extreme change is what I'm after, thx. For sporty driving nothing, and I mean nothing beats a manual trans. But on those days when you're tired and all you want to do is mash the right pedal down, float over the bumps and expansion joints and get home,,, it's annoying.

So,,, what's the GS like to drive compared to the Eclass or 5series? Imo, 5series ride sucks, I like the MB. But both suck in terms of reliability, hence GS.

Dude,, don't go there. Thinking about the $$ I lost and how much that's depreciated,,, urgh. I need a shot,,, thx. Did you know the options alone were way more than the entire car is today? Cryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Hahaha,, in all honesty I'm done with the car, I would rather someone else enjoy it. You can't buy another V8 manual convert and not be into the 6 figures these days. If I don't sell soon, the value will get so low that I may just mothball it and pull it out in 10yrs time and go for a rip.

 

I've had multiple examples of all three, although I've only had one GS, I had two ES's and I've had 4 LSs. Coming from the caliber of car that you're used to you will find the ES cheap and insubstantial feeling. Not that the ES isn't a good car, it is, but it feels overall like what it is, which is a rebadged Camry/Avalon. Powertrain is the same, overall feel is very similar with a better interior and a slightly better quieter ride.

The GS and LS are much more substantial feeling, and will feel like peers to your outgoing BMW, so I would concentrate there.

The 3GS (06-11) is actually a pretty soft car. The 4GS (13-18) is a good bit stiffer, more "BMW like" while still being a very good riding and refined car, especially if you get a Luxury package or F Sport car with the adaptive suspension. The LS takes ride and refinement to another level over the GS, but you loose any "sport" that is there In the GS, but you get one of the best riding and quietest cars ever made as a tradeoff.

If you want the best in Lexus comfort, and a great road trip car...my choice would be the LS every time.

Now, when it comes to LS430 vs LS460. Take what you read about materials, ride, etc with a grain of salt. You will find a lot of LS430 owners here hate on the LS460, but there are a great many LS460 owners who have come from the 430 that are very happy with their LS460s, myself included. Early run LS460s (07-09) had some issues with sticky dash materials, control arms are a common issue as well as brake actuators. They got this stuff really sorted by 2011 +/-. If I were looking for an LS460 I would choose a 13+ model if my budget allowed, or target a 2011 or 2012 car if not. LS430s have some common issues too, ML amps being one, air suspension failures (also an issue on 460s). IMO the LS430s are getting quite old now, the tech is so outdated and the style is so outdated, they aren't something I would look at any longer. The LS460s are a lot more modern, even older ones.

If you are set on an LS430, personally I prefer the 04-06 cars because I think the 04 refresh took what was IMHO a really ugly car (01-03 LS430s) and made it a very good looking car.

LS430 vs LS460, the 460 is a little bit sportier, while retaining I would say 95% of the straight-line comfort of the LS430. If you want the best ride get the LWB LS460L and one with air suspension, although the air suspension adds a potential costly repair. My 2017 LS460L with air suspension rides as well/better than any car I have ever driven, including the LS430 obviously, brand new S Class Mercedes, etc etc.

 

Here's a scary thought, and I've taken a beating too of course, so that's the perspective I'm coming from, not beating you up. My 3 series, 1 yr. newer, and listing at only 46,xxx brand new, is worth maybe $1100 more wholesale lol

My colleague stated, I can buy a car like yours (2007 335i coupe) for 4-5k at auction (my other buddy said yeah but it's not gonna be in the same condition, there's a reason they're at auction). He actually is currently driving a 2009 335i sedan and it looks nice to me--he got it for $5,500!

Anyway, I really don't think you should worry about the value going down, why not enjoy the car, even if you do get a repair or even have to sink $5k or $10k into it? You really cannot find a manual V8 for the most part....just my .02. I am the first, only, and last owner of my 335i. I got it with 000003 miles on the clock! I'll just get more cars eventually, 4 isn't enough (but with a 1 car garage it's gone beyond practicality I admit).

 

What is your budget?

 

Gulp,,, mine dropped from 86k to like you said 5.8k. At least you "only" lost 40k. LOL, hey lesson learned& that's life. And I did enjoy it.

Why not keep it? Two reasons really; 1. I feel it's getting towards that point where the service life of expensive things is nearing an end and to keep her running would be close the value of the car. The engine's got some known problems, mine leaks pretty good and if/when the vanos goes its time to junk the car. Not to mention the electrical gremlins. Why Lexus? B/c that mileage point is near 300k or more.

2. You all will hate me for saying this, but I'm thoroughly tired of driving a manual. Of my 26yr driving history, I've driven manuals for 23. Imagine driving a manual in LA&NYC for the past 12yrs. I swear my hip/left leg/knee (no old ppl jokes plz ) have way more mileage than most other ppl, and I don't want health issues later on. So all in all I'm done with the car.

From the sounds of things you seem interested. Want to do a swap?


I'd like to stay under 8k, but can push it up to 13k. I want a car that will only require gas&oil for the next 5yrs and 70k miles. I don't care about looks or tech or modernity. For ex, looking at the LS's the price difference btwn a 460 and 430 is about 5-10grand, but the driving experience (what you feel behind the wheel; you can't see the ugly front end from the drivers seat) is almost~about the same, say 90-95%. The same cannot be said for a V8 vs V6 GS though, and that's where I'm flexible. I'm happy to spend more, IF I get a better driving exp. If not then I would rather go cheap. You see, I have a rather expensive motorcycle/adrenaline/speed addiction, so any extra $$ is funneled there ala Trump and his triple D cup mistresses. LOL.

PS, this forum is pretty cool. I haven't gotten any negative, snotty remarks. Glad I signed up, Cheers!

 

For ex btwn these two cars which would u choose and why?

430 100k for $6k

460 08' 15ok for $9.5k

Again, I'm not stuck on LS's. I want to head over to the dealership and drive a GS too. SW17LS convinced me. But the same could be asked about a GS model years; is the 3rd gen worth more than the 2nd gen b/c they used the same V8 in both.?

 

Everything you say makes sense...maybe you do want a used LS.....your budget puts you into the 3rd gen, but if you go higher, it could be 4th gen....the 3rd gen is supposedly (I know from 22 mos. it is) bulletproof. If you like repairs, you'll have to make things up to fix on the car, it's just there and it works and nothing wants to break. But it is boring to drive. I've heard the 2007 LS' had some issues, and it seems people say to skip all the way to 2013 if you want a LS460.

I know some BMW V8's have a dreaded $10k repair for a coolant leak, not exactly sure which ones (like a 4.4 X5 does, believe 4.8 does not). So these kinds of things are more than upsetting when it shouldn't leak anyway, sure...

It does sound like if you were to pick up a 3rd gen LS, it suits your needs (5 yrs. / 70k). Be forewarned, it won't be fun like the 650, and it won't even feel up to snuff as far as gadgetry. It's just going to get you everywhere you want to go without any fuss and without breaking. The oddity? Many of us get 28 mpg on the highway when set on cruise and allowed to go. My lifetime mileage is 19.74 over nearly 27k miles, not that bad for a V8....

 

Just to set your expectations, buying any car this old, even a Lexus, the expectation of 5 years or 70k miles with nothing but gas and oil is a little aggressive. You're going to have other repairs to deal with during that time, for sure.

When you're talking about a car thats already 14-15 years old with 100k miles and then putting another 5 years and 70k miles taking it to nearly 20 years old and 200k miles, its just not going to be entirely problem free.

 

It depends on what year the 430 is. I owned a 2004 that I kept for 8 years and 250k miles and upgraded about 18 months go to the 460L. I don't personally like the exterior of the '01-'03 LS430 so if you could get a '04-'06 in that range I'd probably get that over a 2008 460. FWIW, certain 2004's had a strange transmission shifting thing - I think it was tied to the ECU. If I were buying, I'd try to get a 2005 or 2006. Here's why I'd go 430 in your scenario above:

• I understand the Dave Ramsey approach. Since that's what you're leaning towards, I think you shoot for the best vehicle with the lowest odds of issues/repairs.
• If you can get a 2005 or 2006 at that price point, most of the kinks are worked out in those model years and odds are decent you'll have a reliable car on your hands. A 2008 is susceptible to some pretty expensive repairs - control arms, brake actuator, and also cosmetic issue like "sticky" or "melting" door panels. You would be looking at a few thousand to repair all of that if you were unlucky enough to have a 2008 suffering from those issues.
• Having owned both a 430 and 460, I prefer everything about the 460 EXCEPT the engine. That 430 engine is so quiet and so smooth - I definitely miss it. I find the styling of the 430 a bit dated but you're going for value so you may not be as concerned about that - plus it's subjective.
• I think if you get a late model year 430 that has been well maintained and checks out well in an inspection that your odds of a major expense is pretty minimal. I sold mine at 250k and never had anything big go wrong. Outside of routine maintenance, I remember replacing a door lock actuator and a window motor. I think they were both about $300 to $350 done at Toyota. One thing of note: on 430 you have a timing belt that recommends changing every 90k whereas 460 is a chain, so you save money on the 460 maintenance in that regard.
• In your situation and for your goals, I would take the car with lower miles at the lower price in most situations. An LS with 150k miles doesn't scare me at all (I also kept an LS 400 well over 200k miles) but an additional 50k miles may take its toll on the car depending on the driving conditions.

In short, if you could get a 2005 or 2006 430 for somewhere around $6k, I'd set $2k in a separate bank account for unexpected things here and there over the next 2-3 years. If you buy one around 100k miles or more, make sure the timing belt has been changed. That's a relatively expensive endeavor that you'd hope someone else paid for. The 430 is a serene car to drive - and there's no better car than an LS for highway trips.