Freds430

Consumer Reports ranks Tesla 25th out of 29 in reliability. CR gave the Model X, their $100,000+ SUV, the lowest score in reliability. They listed their 10 dogs to avoid based on reliability and the Model X is #1. It bonds are graded junk. In the last 3 1/2 years it has lost over 5 billion. In fifteen years they have never come close to making a profit. Their 15th year was their worst year with a loss of 1.96 billion. They lost 777 million in the first quarter of 2018 and 717 million in the second quarter. Tesla's time is borrowed as the federal tax credits will soon be disappearing and actual profitable car manufacturers increase production of cheaper, better looking and more reliable EV. The Jaguar I Pace built out with more options than the Model X is well under $25,000 less. The interior and exterior is 100% better looking. The average insurance rate for a Model 3 is $2,814 which is the same as a Porsche 911.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

BippuLexus

Agreed. Tesla S is premium at best. They aren't even close to luxury. I believe people think Tesla is luxurious is because of autopilot and the tech. The sad truth is - tech isn't the reason a car is luxurious. Tech is only a small part of that equation.

Infiniti is said to fully EV and hybrid their line up starting in 2021. Other companies seem to be slowly following suit. It seems to me - by at least 2025 and onward - quite a bit of car companies will have EV/Hybrid options.

Freds430

Gee I hope it is not just you and me on this forum.

theory816

There's a lot of mystery and misunderstandings surrounding EV's and autonomous tech that I would like to dispel here.

Out of all of the new cars today, I wanna pick out the Cadillac CT6. This car is a bit special. Simply because of Super Cruise. Many people think that leather seats makes a car luxurious or that a smooth ride makes a car luxurious. While all of those things are pieces of the luxury pie, nothing gets a bigger portion of that pie than autonomous driving. I've coined the term, Hands Free is Pain Free. The only way to truly understand term is by going out and test driving the car for yourself. Luxury is about feeling, and you can't get it through reading forum posts or watching video reviews.

Most people will never get to experience this technology because its only available on top trims or high ticket cars. So what ends up happening is that people won't truly understand how much autonomy and tech can help make our lives easier. And so the push towards more EVs/autonomy is slowed.

BippuLexus

Well - I do agree that tech or autonomous does make our lives easier. But I would argue definitely - that autonomous driving is not a big portion of the pie that makes a luxury vehicle. If the ability to self-drive is the big portion of the pie, then Tesla would be the most luxurious than the Lexus LS, which is definitely not true.
Here's my example: The Model 3. It has autopilot. But interior is worst than a 80s Saturn. So - my question is - how does a crappy designed interior, crappy material used in the interior, and with crappy build quality get overrides by having the ability to drive itself?

The issue here is - tech gets outdated so fast that I would rate it on the low scale of what it means to be luxury.
Another example is hotels: A hotel with less tech, more marbles, more fine wood, more upscale (expensive) amenities, and insane costumer service is a more luxurious hotel than a modern hotel with high-end tech.

Like hotels - cars interior about inviting people in. It makes the person feel like this is nice and expensive. Everything they touch is expensive. Everything they feel is expensive. Etc...

theory816

Remember, I picked the CT6 for a very specific reason. That is, because of Super Cruise. SC is really the only car out right now that is truly HANDS FREE. Tesla's Autopilot isn't hands free and its naming is actually very misleading. But Tesla deserves nothing but praise.

We, as people, are easily fooled by shiny objects. We give more weight to them.This is a problem because the things that provides us with real comfort are things that we usually cannot see, IE pressure points, cognitive loads, temperature, and sound waves just to name a few. Aesthetics should be on the bottom of importance because it only provides eye candy, while all of your other senses are ignored. The eyes are outnumbered on 2:12 ratio(loose) of senses. So, Not in a million years can you convince me to buy a new luxury car that does not have Super Cruise.

SuperCruise wipes out pressure points on the hands and drops cognitive loads - things of comfort that cannot be seen. This in turns makes your driving EXTREMELY comfortable. Again, you must try it out for yourself if you are to truly understand luxury. And because of autonomous tech, luxury has taken on a new meaning.

The hotel example with its wondrous looking marble floors and chandeliers would all go down the drain if the noise levels are insanely high or that the temperature is unbearable. The marble floors would be unwalkable because of the hard pressure exerted onto your feet. That's why they have the fancy carpets. These things are not as trivial or basic as one may think.