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or the Avalon just completely tanks and gets canceled. I guess things could change but I think everyone is going to be wanting awd in the northern states and in Canada. I mentioned earlier that the Altima will only come awd in Canada, Lexus GS and LS are only awd in Canada as well. Makes sense for the Avalon and ES IMO as the prices have gone up.
I saw the new Avalon in white over the weekend, and it looks great. Toyota needs to hire new press photographers.
I saw the new Avalon in white over the weekend, and it looks great. Toyota needs to hire new press photographers.
Glad I am not the only one. I saw one yesterday myself, in red, XSE/Touring trim I guess? And it wasn't bad-looking at all. The rear end, headlights, and side profile are probably its best parts.
It's a better car than the current model and will sell a lot.
But at the end of the day it's still mediocre to anybody who is used to the German midsize sedans. it still has those awkward FWD proportions, ugly interior design, and heavy use of plastics in the cabin. This does not hold a candle to even a base model A6.
The departure of the GS will be a sad day. It is one of the few Lexus sedans I have ever admired.
But at the end of the day it's still mediocre to anybody who is used to the German midsize sedans. it still has those awkward FWD proportions, ugly interior design, and heavy use of plastics in the cabin. This does not hold a candle to even a base model A6.
But at the end of the day it's still mediocre to anybody who is used to the German midsize sedans. it still has those awkward FWD proportions, ugly interior design, and heavy use of plastics in the cabin. This does not hold a candle to even a base model A6.
keep in mind the "base model" A6 is now priced at $58900 vs $39500 for an ES......apples to apples
It's a better car than the current model and will sell a lot.
But at the end of the day it's still mediocre to anybody who is used to the German midsize sedans. it still has those awkward FWD proportions, ugly interior design, and heavy use of plastics in the cabin. This does not hold a candle to even a base model A6.
The departure of the GS will be a sad day. It is one of the few Lexus sedans I have ever admired.
I personally do not understand why people like the Audi A4 and A6 models. The A6 is fwd is it not?
I personally do not understand why people like the Audi A4 and A6 models. The A6 is fwd is it not?
Audi A4 and A6 are longitudinal FWD cars while the Lexus ES is transverse FWD.
Longitudinal FWD and AWD cars handle sorta like a RWD car - this is one of the reasons why people like them.
If we are comparing to the Audi A4 to the Lexus ES, car enthusiasts tend to lead towards the A4 probably because of the quattro. Neither the A4 or ES handles pretty well though. The A4 is confident and the ES is okay.
Audi A4 and A6 are longitudinal FWD cars while the Lexus ES is transverse FWD.
Longitudinal FWD and AWD cars handle sorta like a RWD car - this is one of the reasons why people like them.
If we are comparing to the Audi A4 to the Lexus ES, car enthusiasts tend to lead towards the A4 probably because of the quattro. Neither the A4 or ES handles pretty well though. The A4 is confident and the ES is okay.
Who cares. The fwd ES sells how well? Personally, I like the ES interior better than the GS, LS and A6. Toss up with the E class.
It's a better car than the current model and will sell a lot.
But at the end of the day it's still mediocre to anybody who is used to the German midsize sedans. it still has those awkward FWD proportions, ugly interior design, and heavy use of plastics in the cabin. This does not hold a candle to even a base model A6.
The departure of the GS will be a sad day. It is one of the few Lexus sedans I have ever admired.
I'm getting the feeling that you are bitter and hating on the ES because the GS will be cancelled because of it. Did your admiration of the GS turn into a sale? I had a 2015 GS and the reality is quite a departure from perception and not in a good way. It was loud, rough riding and cramped. Sure it handled quite well for its age, but it certainly lacks the refinement of what its price tag indicates.
Who cares. The fwd ES sells how well? Personally, I like the ES interior better than the GS, LS and A6. Toss up with the E class.
Take it easy. All I did was answer your question of:
I personally do not understand why people like the Audi A4 and A6 models. The A6 is fwd is it not?
No offensive taken or given. Lol.
Yeah. The FWD ES does sell insanely well. No one is questioning that fact. Just because it sells well doesn't mean its a good "driver's car". I think, majority of the people here, feel the same way. I think we all believe the Lexus ES is good for what it is but its not a good "driver's car."
This is why the longitudinal and transverse FWD/AWD matters. It affects how the car drives. Granted - if driving pleasure isn't your thing, then yeah, the Lexus ES is a great choice.
Personally - I'll have to disagree with you in the interior design.
Out of all the cars you listed - the Lexus LS ranks 1 in design. It goes LS > A6 > E-Class > GS > ES for me.
Side note: Its just not possible for the ES to have a better interior than the LS:
I mean C'mon.
Take it easy. All I did was answer your question of:
No offensive taken or given. Lol.
Yeah. The FWD ES does sell insanely well. No one is questioning that fact. Just because it sells well doesn't mean its a good "driver's car". I think, majority of the people here, feel the same way. I think we all believe the Lexus ES is good for what it is but its not a good "driver's car."
This is why the longitudinal and transverse FWD/AWD matters. It affects how the car drives. Granted - if driving pleasure isn't your thing, then yeah, the Lexus ES is a great choice.
Personally - I'll have to disagree with you in the interior design.
Out of all the cars you listed - the Lexus LS ranks 1 in design. It goes LS > A6 > E-Class > GS > ES for me.
Side note: Its just not possible for the ES to have a better interior than the LS:
I mean C'mon.
A drivers car could be defined in a lot ways. To me, something that easy going, low weight, softly spring, decent on gas is my definition of something nice and my definition of a drivers car. I could care less about RWD biased. Every Lexus aside for GX is hampered by the poorly done remote touch interface. Premium gas is also something I have no interest in ever doing again, we did that with our LX470. Q
As for the LS interior, it's nice. But is such a let down of what it could be. The gauge cluster imo is a let down, (same with Es but Es is more forgiving). Size inside is not bigger than the ES and might even be smaller in some measurements, The controls of how to adjust the seats and heated seats buttons are bewildering poorly designed. And apparently the performance numbers are hard to replicate. So that is why I say I like the ES design better.
I personally do not understand why people like the Audi A4 and A6 models. The A6 is fwd is it not?
There are a variety of reasons some people might prefer the A4 or A6. It's no different than with any other car/model. The base A6 is FWD but the majority of them sold in the U.S. are AWD. I think the new gen A6 coming around December might be Quattro only.
There are a variety of reasons some people might prefer the A4 or A6. It's no different than with any other car/model. The base A6 is FWD but the majority of them sold in the U.S. are AWD. I think the new gen A6 coming around December might be Quattro only.
Interiors have always felt drab and dull. But that's just me.
A drivers car could be defined in a lot ways. To me, something that easy going, low weight, softly spring, decent on gas is my definition of something nice and my definition of a drivers car. I could care less about RWD biased. Every Lexus aside for GX is hampered by the poorly done remote touch interface. Premium gas is also something I have no interest in ever doing again, we did that with our LX470. Q
As for the LS interior, it's nice. But is such a let down of what it could be. The gauge cluster imo is a let down, (same with Es but Es is more forgiving). Size inside is not bigger than the ES and might even be smaller in some measurements, The controls of how to adjust the seats and heated seats buttons are bewildering poorly designed. And apparently the performance numbers are hard to replicate. So that is why I say I like the ES design better.
I think what you described isn't a "driver's car" - I think you described a "comfortable daily driver" - given by the fact that you want something easy going, soft springs, and efficient on fuel economy (with low weight).
A "driver's car" has always been defined as something that connects the driver's to the road. A car that makes you wanna drive it hard on twisty roads and gives you this thrill about it.
Side note: the purist definition of a driver's car and has always been: Front Engine, Rear drive, and 6MT.
I don't think its a let down at all, personally. I sat in the 110K Kirko Glass Executive Pack Lexus LS and it was the nicest car I sat in. It has real hand cut glass on the door handles. It has hand folded and stitched door panel material. Its highly detailed and a wonderful place to be in. I didn't even have to touch anything and I felt it was expensive.
Versus when I sat in the Lexus ES - I felt it was premium but it felt like a step up Avalon at best.
I don't think its a let down at all, personally. I sat in the 110K Kirko Glass Executive Pack Lexus LS and it was the nicest car I sat in. It has real hand cut glass on the door handles. It has hand folded and stitched door panel material. Its highly detailed and a wonderful place to be in. I didn't even have to touch anything and I felt it was expensive.
Versus when I sat in the Lexus ES - I felt it was premium but it felt like a step up Avalon at best.
It's the design I believe is the let down. Not the materials, don't get me wrong, the materials are very nice.
09-19-18, 01:44 PM
