2019 ES350 F Sport or 2018 GS350 F Sport?
10-24-18 | 07:23 PM
#31
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No it doesn't, but its a dynamic difference that has a huge impact on how a car feels and looks.
What makes the GS more refined than the ES is not that it's RWD. Its suspension is much more robust and sophisticated while the ES has McPherson struts like most other FWD family sedans. The ES is a nice riding, comfortable cruiser that delivers good luxury and a great brand at a good price...but they just don't have that "high end solidity" that the IS, GS and LS have.
What makes the GS more refined than the ES is not that it's RWD. Its suspension is much more robust and sophisticated while the ES has McPherson struts like most other FWD family sedans. The ES is a nice riding, comfortable cruiser that delivers good luxury and a great brand at a good price...but they just don't have that "high end solidity" that the IS, GS and LS have.
10-24-18 | 07:23 PM
#32
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i am glad that usnews autogenerated listing is important somehow, but pretty sure ES got rated really well by many, many reviews, both by mags and youtube reviewers, and it will likely be next years best selling midsize luxury sedan on that list. I have seen many 1 "bad" review out of 100 for ES? It is going to be a smash hit.
Which actually means that people buying it judge it to be #1 for their money.
How can anyone take that list serious when you have GS hybrid there that sells 10 units per month and is on special order only?
Which actually means that people buying it judge it to be #1 for their money.
How can anyone take that list serious when you have GS hybrid there that sells 10 units per month and is on special order only?
10-24-18 | 07:25 PM
#33
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The ES will sell great, doesn't mean it IS great though. I will say its the best ES they've made from a driving perspective, but it still is what it is, which is essentially a midsized family sedan.
10-24-18 | 07:41 PM
#35
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Nothing wrong at all with any generation of an ES. But sit in and drive in any generation of a GS from 1998 onwards and you will know what a platform engineered car can do when the Japanese really put their minds and hearts into a car.
Raise your hands if you have driven a RWD GS six or eight in all conditions and can tell the difference between that and a FWD car. A GS is just so different, as is a LS. It's not a knock against the ES cars but just how much superior the GS was/is. If only Lexus had decided to upgrade the GS constantly.
Raise your hands if you have driven a RWD GS six or eight in all conditions and can tell the difference between that and a FWD car. A GS is just so different, as is a LS. It's not a knock against the ES cars but just how much superior the GS was/is. If only Lexus had decided to upgrade the GS constantly.
10-24-18 | 07:42 PM
#36
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Nothing wrong at all with any generation of an ES. But sit in and drive in any generation of a GS from 1998 onwards and you will know what a platform engineered car can do when the Japanese really put their minds and hearts into a car.
Raise your hands if you have driven a RWD GS six or eight in all conditions and can tell the difference between that and a FWD car. A GS is just so different, as is a LS. It's not a knock against the ES cars but just how much superior the GS was/is. If only Lexus had decided to upgrade the GS constantly.
Raise your hands if you have driven a RWD GS six or eight in all conditions and can tell the difference between that and a FWD car. A GS is just so different, as is a LS. It's not a knock against the ES cars but just how much superior the GS was/is. If only Lexus had decided to upgrade the GS constantly.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 10-24-18 at 07:46 PM.
10-24-18 | 08:12 PM
#38
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You would of thought Car & Driver would say the Gas has sub par handling.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...rt-test-review
Yes, the new ES350 has a superior quarter mile and 0-60 time than the above GS f sport.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...t-drive-review
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 10-24-18 at 08:21 PM.
10-24-18 | 08:19 PM
#39
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From: RightHere
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
The whole fwd vs rwd debate is very overrated
So no long term ownership experience ever with a GS? Just you drove one and that's it? Owned one? Any RWD Lexus product?
10-24-18 | 08:22 PM
#40
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10-24-18 | 08:23 PM
#42
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Just because you don’t understand why something is better doesn’t mean it isn’t better.
1/4 mile times and 0-60 times have nothing to do with what we’re talking about. It’s aboit feel and refinement. The ES just doesn’t feel like a super high quality luxury car like a GS or LS or 5 Series or E Class, and the reason it doesn’t is because it isn’t, it’s a FWD McPherson strut basic family sedan at its core.
1/4 mile times and 0-60 times have nothing to do with what we’re talking about. It’s aboit feel and refinement. The ES just doesn’t feel like a super high quality luxury car like a GS or LS or 5 Series or E Class, and the reason it doesn’t is because it isn’t, it’s a FWD McPherson strut basic family sedan at its core.
Last edited by SW17LS; 10-24-18 at 08:26 PM.
10-24-18 | 08:34 PM
#43
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Yes my GS430 was a handful in winter with proper winter tires. Don't blame you. AWD and FWD win the day in winter as do narrow tall winter tires. You owned Subaru and I love those, except for those years of head gaskets etc. The Late 2000s GS had AWD but by then BMW was already ahead of the game with its AWD, turbos and V8s. MB and Audi did very similar things.
The thing is that a proper RWD setup wins for enthusiast drivers every time. But you don't need to be a sporty driver to appreciate how good a proper RWD platform can really be.
The thing is that a proper RWD setup wins for enthusiast drivers every time. But you don't need to be a sporty driver to appreciate how good a proper RWD platform can really be.
10-24-18 | 08:38 PM
#44
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Let’s put it this way, even having owned two LS460s, one AWD and one RWD, the difference in feel with the RWD in the same car is huge. The way the car is propelled along just feels different, much better.
When I bought my ES sedans there weren’t a lot of options for that sized car in a luxury brand at that price. Today, there are more options and I really don’t think I would get an ES. I’d have to seriously consider a Genesis G80 which is a truly premium car that feels more similar to the bigger players than the ES, or something like a Volvo S90 which has a much better interior, and better styling IMHO and while it is FWD, at least it looks RWD.
When I bought my ES sedans there weren’t a lot of options for that sized car in a luxury brand at that price. Today, there are more options and I really don’t think I would get an ES. I’d have to seriously consider a Genesis G80 which is a truly premium car that feels more similar to the bigger players than the ES, or something like a Volvo S90 which has a much better interior, and better styling IMHO and while it is FWD, at least it looks RWD.