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GM offers buyouts to 18,000 workers amid strong profits

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Old 11-01-18 | 07:36 AM
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The difference between blue collar workers and white collar workers is well-known and well-accepted. Blue collar work involves manual labour, likely paid hourly wages, and is related to building things (including on an assembly line) or maintaining things. White collar work is accepted to be salaried, office positions (i.e. not a labour position on the assembly line), and includes administrative workers, managerial workers and professional workers.

While it is ideal to keep both assembly line workers, and office and professional workers, if pressure to keep costs down prevents a large automaker from being able to afford to pay both blue collar and white collar workers in the same location, it is better to keep the white collar workers, especially the professionals.

This is because professionals -- including engineers, accountants, teachers and professors, physicians and surgeons, and lawyers -- are highly-paid knowledge workers. Knowledge workers are value-added workers: The value of the work they produce is greater than the value of the resources that are consumed. Value generation can grow an economy.

If an economy were to lose blue collar workers to low-wage areas, and then lose white collar workers (some white collar workers, the managers and administrators, will follow the blue collar workers) due to indifference, the only jobs that are left are low-waged, low-skilled pink collar -- service industry -- workers. Pink collar work is not enough to grow an economy.

That said, if an organisation believes that it must reduce its workforce to remain viable, buyouts -- including early retirement -- are an accepted form of voluntary reduction; buyouts are not bribes. Buyouts can be seen as investments by spending money now to avoid trouble and spending (even more) money in the future. What organisation would not want to reduce workforce voluntarily than by having to pick and choose who stays and who goes?
Old 11-01-18 | 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
it helps cashflow and if the positions aren't contributing to future plans, you don't need those people, and they're not trying to get rid of everyone and they're not laying them off either, just offering a friendlier way to eliminate some dead weight.
I agree that slackers and goof-offs should be dealt with (and, on an assembly line, they can compromise the build-quality of a vehicle). But, even if they are let go, someone needs to take their place.....you can't operate in a vacuum. Even if robots take over some of the work, the robots still have to be monitored to make sure they aren't screwing up.
Old 11-01-18 | 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by tex2670
So if a company has financial struggles and needs to cut jobs, they should be hit with a tax? What about people fired for cause? If there's a Home Depot that has poor sales, the company should be taxed if they close it down? If a mom and pop restaurant owner retires--or can't make a go of it because the restaurant is not profitable--they should be taxed if they close their business? C'mon now.
Great questions This is not how America or a free market is supposed to operate.

Originally Posted by Sulu
The difference between blue collar workers and white collar workers is well-known and well-accepted. Blue collar work involves manual labour, likely paid hourly wages, and is related to building things (including on an assembly line) or maintaining things. White collar work is accepted to be salaried, office positions (i.e. not a labour position on the assembly line), and includes administrative workers, managerial workers and professional workers.

While it is ideal to keep both assembly line workers, and office and professional workers, if pressure to keep costs down prevents a large automaker from being able to afford to pay both blue collar and white collar workers in the same location, it is better to keep the white collar workers, especially the professionals.

This is because professionals -- including engineers, accountants, teachers and professors, physicians and surgeons, and lawyers -- are highly-paid knowledge workers. Knowledge workers are value-added workers: The value of the work they produce is greater than the value of the resources that are consumed. Value generation can grow an economy.

If an economy were to lose blue collar workers to low-wage areas, and then lose white collar workers (some white collar workers, the managers and administrators, will follow the blue collar workers) due to indifference, the only jobs that are left are low-waged, low-skilled pink collar -- service industry -- workers. Pink collar work is not enough to grow an economy.

That said, if an organisation believes that it must reduce its workforce to remain viable, buyouts -- including early retirement -- are an accepted form of voluntary reduction; buyouts are not bribes. Buyouts can be seen as investments by spending money now to avoid trouble and spending (even more) money in the future. What organisation would not want to reduce workforce voluntarily than by having to pick and choose who stays and who goes?

^^ This is all besides the point. GM is not gong by to replace 18,000 white collared workers with 18,000 blue collared workers. Deleting higher paying jobs is quite the concern.

Last edited by Toys4RJill; 11-01-18 at 07:51 AM.
Old 11-01-18 | 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
OK, fine, if you want to criticize mine...but then, if you're going to do that, then come up with a better idea yourself to keep more factory jobs from being lost. You may not agree wth Trump, either, but he is at least trying. Lost jobs simply mean more unemployment, fewer auto sales themselves (which auto companies are in business for), and more people on welfare or unemployment.
Sometimes I wonder, when was the last time most of us have toured a factory? I can think of one in particular, which I won't dime out, who makes products stamped "Made in USA."

The quality is atrocious, and this may come as a surprise, but the workforce is 100% legal immigrants. I am not sure what it is that everyone wants, but imho, this is a smokescreen and not what many of us have in mind, as far as creating factory jobs. But such American cos. are "veiled" if you will, publicly traded, highly profitable with many fed contracts, and maintain first of all, "Made in USA," and secondly, low paying jobs which many US Citizens do not want.
Old 11-01-18 | 07:59 AM
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While I agree that one cannot directly compare the auto industry of a century ago to that of today, nevertheless, there are still certain parallels and similarities. One comparison, that Henry Ford learned back then (and, unfortunately some companies have to re-learn today) is that, in most cases, consumers (including a company's own employees) cannot buy new vehicles without a decently-paying job and income. So, Ford, without any union pressure (he opposed unionization for decades) willingly doubled the average salary of his assembly-line employees to what was then the highest in the industry (he was also very strict about how they morally led their personal lives, but that is another subject, one that goes beyond the purposes of this discussion). His competitors laughed at him, and told him he would soon be out of business. But there were long lines of people at Ford's personnel-center waiting to apply for jobs...he was attracting a lot of talented people. And his company, contrary to the dire predictions of his competitors, went on to become the most successful auto company up to that time....and it still exists today.
Old 11-01-18 | 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnhav430
But such American cos. are "veiled" if you will, publicly traded, highly profitable with many fed contracts, and maintain first of all, "Made in USA," and secondly, low paying jobs which many US Citizens do not want.
Creating better jobs that are for the future is hope for GM, you would want them to make the engineering type jobs in the USA. Hopefully they don’t farm them to China. Made in the USA is OK, try to buy when you can but not worth paying the premium.
Old 11-01-18 | 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
While I agree that one cannot directly compare the auto industry of a century ago to that of today, nevertheless, there are still certain parallels and similarities. One comparison, that Henry Ford learned back then (and, unfortunately some companies have to re-learn today) is that, in most cases, consumers (including a company's own employees) cannot buy new vehicles without a decently-paying job and income. So, Ford, without any union pressure (he opposed unionization for decades) willingly doubled the average salary of his assembly-line employees to what was then the highest in the industry (he was also very strict about how they morally led their personal lives, but that is another subject, one that goes beyond the purposes of this discussion). His competitors laughed at him, and told him he would soon be out of business. But there were long lines of people at Ford's personnel-center waiting to apply for jobs...he was attracting a lot of talented people. And his company, contrary to the dire predictions of his competitors, went on to become the most successful auto company up to that time....and it still exists today.
I don’t agree. That was a completely different time. People today need cars that don’t cost more than they should. GM appears to be under assault, as the southern Toyota or Honda and Hyundai plants are a far better competitive advantage than the big 3 trying to deal with the union.
Old 11-01-18 | 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnhav430
Sometimes I wonder, when was the last time most of us have toured a factory? I can think of one in particular, which I won't dime out, who makes products stamped "Made in USA."

The quality is atrocious, and this may come as a surprise, but the workforce is 100% legal immigrants. I am not sure what it is that everyone wants, but imho, this is a smokescreen and not what many of us have in mind, as far as creating factory jobs. But such American cos. are "veiled" if you will, publicly traded, highly profitable with many fed contracts, and maintain first of all, "Made in USA," and secondly, low paying jobs which many US Citizens do not want.
First of all, IF they are legal immigrants, have not stolen or evaded their way into the country, have kept out of trouble, and have done their paperwork correctly, then, in my book, they are legitimate Americans, and are entitled to a job as much as anyone else. Second, the idea that they are goof-offs, slackers, or do substandard work is usually nonsense.....most of the ones I've seen work quite hard for not a whole lot of money. I've had a number of things in my house repaired or replaced from their labor (our condo association also uses companies that hire them)......and have been generally satisfied.
Old 11-01-18 | 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill


So how laying of 18,000 white collar workers help facilitate ^^^? You still need the workforce.
They aren't laying off 18k workers. They are offering buyouts to 18k workers, with an expected take rate around 10-15%. I suspect they'll start here then, if the take rate is low or more is needed, they will then turn to involuntary layoffs. But this is the least painful way to start the process.

My employer did this last year. As an employee in a historically cyclical industry, I always find this method to be far better than involuntary layoffs. They offered it to me but I did not take it. Many younger folks did and used it to make various life changes (moving, schooling, etc.) but by far and large, it was taken by those who were nearing retirement. The offer here was something like 2 weeks of pay for every year of service. Those guys with more than 26 years of service and planning to retire in the next year or two could take the buy out, get paid for a full year, then start their retirement. Not a bad situation. And every one who took it saved one other employee from an involuntary layoff.

I don't see the issue here.
Old 11-01-18 | 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
I don’t agree. That was a completely different time. People today need cars that don’t cost more than they should.
If desired, a new car today, in the American market (Versa, Rio, Fiesta, Spark, Mirage, etc...), can be had for 15K or less, though, obviously, by today's standards, it won't be much more than bare, basic transportation. I did a review on a new Mirage, a few years ago, that listed for less than 13K, just to see what today's skin-flint transportation is like. It had a Mickey-Mouse three cylinder engine, old-fashioned wind-up windows, you locked your own doors and hand-adjusted your own mirrors, you rowed your own gears with a 5-speed manual transmission, and, if (?) I remember correctly, there was no air conditioning.

Last edited by mmarshall; 11-01-18 at 08:15 AM.
Old 11-01-18 | 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
^^ This is all besides the point. GM is not gong by to replace 18,000 white collared workers with 18,000 blue collared workers. Deleting higher paying jobs is quite the concern.
You don't understand what I said. Please read what I said. I never said that GM would replace the 18,000 white collar workers with 18,000 blue collar workers. You cannot directly replace lost white collar workers with blue collar workers.

Originally Posted by Sulu
While it is ideal to keep both assembly line workers, and office and professional workers, if pressure to keep costs down prevents a large automaker from being able to afford to pay both blue collar and white collar workers in the same location, it is better to keep the white collar workers, especially the professionals.

This is because professionals -- including engineers, accountants, teachers and professors, physicians and surgeons, and lawyers -- are highly-paid knowledge workers. Knowledge workers are value-added workers: The value of the work they produce is greater than the value of the resources that are consumed. Value generation can grow an economy.
Old 11-01-18 | 08:19 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by JDR76
They aren't laying off 18k workers. They are offering buyouts to 18k workers, with an expected take rate around 10-15%. I suspect they'll start here then, if the take rate is low or more is needed, they will then turn to involuntary layoffs. But this is the least painful way to start the process.

My employer did this last year. As an employee in a historically cyclical industry, I always find this method to be far better than involuntary layoffs. They offered it to me but I did not take it. Many younger folks did and used it to make various life changes (moving, schooling, etc.) but by far and large, it was taken by those who were nearing retirement. The offer here was something like 2 weeks of pay for every year of service. Those guys with more than 26 years of service and planning to retire in the next year or two could take the buy out, get paid for a full year, then start their retirement. Not a bad situation. And every one who took it saved one other employee from an involuntary layoff.

I don't see the issue here.
Sorry. I shouldn’t use the word layoffs. They also said layoffs could be coming which is definitely going to be the case if there are not enough buyouts.
Old 11-01-18 | 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Sulu
You don't understand what I said. Please read what I said. I never said that GM would replace the 18,000 white collar workers with 18,000 blue collar workers. You cannot directly replace lost white collar workers with blue collar workers.
My bad, please accept my sincere apology . I tend not read giant long responses. But yes, you are correct.
Old 11-01-18 | 08:22 AM
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That's tough for those employees with the buyouts. Curious if their local politicians or Trump will address it.
Old 11-01-18 | 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
OK, fine, if you want to criticize mine...but then, if you're going to do that, then come up with a better idea yourself to keep more factory jobs from being lost. You may not agree wth Trump, either, but he is at least trying. Lost jobs simply mean more unemployment, fewer auto sales themselves (which auto companies are in business for), and more people on welfare or unemployment.
I don't need to come up with a "better" solution. It's a free market. If you don't like companies shipping jobs off shore, don't buy their products.

There has already been a tax act passed reducing the corporate tax rate to encourage companies to bring those jobs back--great. But to tax companies because they reduce their work force?



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