GM closing Ontario, Detroit, and Ohio factories
12-04-18, 12:28 PM
#151
Lexus Champion
Cutbacks, though, are not always the right thing to do....especially when you are talking about a company as big as GM. That's why the politicians are getting involved this time. That's THEM saying it, not just me.
As for why they're involved this time, it's because Trump made promises that he has no power/ability to keep (no job losses), not GM's size. My employer is the biggest aerospace company in the world, the largest exporter in the United States and the 5th largest defense contractor in the world, employing over 140k people. 20k+ layoffs, and Trump didn't get all riled up like this.
Last edited by JDR76; 12-04-18 at 01:03 PM.
12-04-18, 01:05 PM
#152
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
It's not just a question of keeping the factories open, but what is actually produced in those factories. There are several different issues at stake here, not just layoffs.
And, you're a mod. If you think responses are repetitious or unnecessary, you have the power to delete them.
And, you're a mod. If you think responses are repetitious or unnecessary, you have the power to delete them.
12-04-18, 01:15 PM
#153
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
If Trump as well as Trudeau were forward thinking. They should apply immediate 100% tariffs to anything electric, batteries, clean burning, coding, autonomous driving to give American companies protection to put the foundation of future vehicle manufacturing in the US. This is the future automotive. Furthermore, Trump should drop the immigration ban stuff so that American companies such as GM and Ford can actually higher the top engineers and people in the world. The wonderful country of Canada has less restrictive immigration laws and while people are complaining about workers being laid off and closing, GM in Canada has actually been hiring the top high paying engineers for the future autonomous designs creation.
12-04-18, 01:43 PM
#154
Lexus Champion
There is still a year's worth of negotiations with UAW/Unifor in both countries that has to be completed. How will these layoffs happen? In a slow phased shutdown or in larger intervals of workers being let go. Many of the most senior workers will get a buyout/severance. It is not easy to layoff unionized workers so there is much that has to be negotiated, especially when you have senior workers who make the top hourly wage ($34/hr CAD and whatever it is in USD).
We don't know if one or more of these factories can be reused for something else, but we can assume that many of the younger workers should be in demand in other GM plants. If not, other automakers will want their unique skills. Yes, they have to disrupt their lives and move, but with the severance and some sort of moving allowance, they can move to another plant.
We don't know if one or more of these factories can be reused for something else, but we can assume that many of the younger workers should be in demand in other GM plants. If not, other automakers will want their unique skills. Yes, they have to disrupt their lives and move, but with the severance and some sort of moving allowance, they can move to another plant.
12-04-18, 01:51 PM
#155
Lexus Champion
Shareholders don't make laws or regulations. Shareholders don't vote Federal money. Shareholders don't draw up company contracts with the UAW (that they are expected to keep). In many cases, shareholders don't even buy GM products. This time, she's going to have to answer to a lot of other people...people who don't just sit around and think about nothing but corporate profits all day long. 
I know you are upset about this, and I don't fault you. But you just can't assume that so many others truly feel the same way.
Sorry--not impressed.
Last edited by tex2670; 12-04-18 at 01:58 PM.
12-04-18, 01:55 PM
#156
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
12-04-18, 01:56 PM
#158
Lexus Champion
There is still a year's worth of negotiations with UAW/Unifor in both countries that has to be completed. How will these layoffs happen? In a slow phased shutdown or in larger intervals of workers being let go. Many of the most senior workers will get a buyout/severance. It is not easy to layoff unionized workers so there is much that has to be negotiated, especially when you have senior workers who make the top hourly wage ($34/hr CAD and whatever it is in USD).
We don't know if one or more of these factories can be reused for something else, but we can assume that many of the younger workers should be in demand in other GM plants. If not, other automakers will want their unique skills. Yes, they have to disrupt their lives and move, but with the severance and some sort of moving allowance, they can move to another plant.
We don't know if one or more of these factories can be reused for something else, but we can assume that many of the younger workers should be in demand in other GM plants. If not, other automakers will want their unique skills. Yes, they have to disrupt their lives and move, but with the severance and some sort of moving allowance, they can move to another plant.
Lots of cycles in aerospace, unfortunately, so the whole process of laying off union workers is pretty well understood and seamless. Pretty much all that is asked by the union is to honor the layoff/severance language and to allow workers with a notice the first chance to get any current open positions.
12-04-18, 01:59 PM
#159
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
The drawback is, major companies will hire the top engineers and put them in locations outside the US. You are already seeing GM do that, they are hiring for the innovation centre in Oshawa near the University This applies to all companies and fields.
Not sure what a ferrriners is? Is that supposed to be funny.
Not sure what a ferrriners is? Is that supposed to be funny.
12-04-18, 02:03 PM
#160
Lexus Fanatic
Oh, she's generally been a good manager, especially compared to some of her bozo predecessors.....remember Roger Smith and Bob Stempel? But, IMO, she has made three significant mistakes. First, selling off Opel/Vauxhall, which gave us several well-built smaller Buicks, Second, cancelling the ties to Australia's Holden Division....which gave us the excellent if slow-selling Pontiac GTO, G8, and Chevy SS....and which probably would have given us another Chevy El Camino from its Holden Maloo car/truck design. Third, of course, was the most serious one.....dropping so many sedans and closing three plants. This last one has gotten her into some real hot water with the politicians in both the U.S. and Canada.
And she cares why? Again, she doesn't work for those politicians, she works for the shareholders of the GM corporation. Politicians can be pissed off all they want, they can't do anything about it, nor should they be able to.
You keep looking at this as an enthusiast who wants products to be available and you don't understand GM IS A BUSINESS. They build what people buy. They cant survive off selling you a car every 5 years. This statement from you says it all:
Second, cancelling the ties to Australia's Holden Division....which gave us the excellent if slow-selling Pontiac GTO, G8, and Chevy SS
And, though generally a good manager up to now, I don't think that, overall, she's been the equal of Bob Lutz, when he was at GM. Lutz himself liked big Buick sedans.....in fact, he dumped his own personal Cadillac for a Lucerne when it first came out. I have not heard him make any comments in public about this latest move, but I sense that he is not pleased with the move to cancel so many big sedans.
I also own a business, and we have people who want to hire us every day that we turn away because its not the sort of business we want to do or that makes sense for our company. Thats how operating a business is. GM has said they don't want to be in the big sedan business anymore. Deal with it. Your arguments make zero sense here, they're 100% emotional, tied to what you want and ignore all the factual rationale presented as to why they made the decision they made. You're basically just crying "but I waaaaant it".
Last edited by SW17LS; 12-04-18 at 02:06 PM.
12-04-18, 02:08 PM
#161
Lexus Champion
The plants in theory could be reused. Problem is they are too old to begin with. The Oshawa plant is operating at about 15% efficiency right now. I am assuming the other locations are similar. It makes no sense to keep these locations.
GM, and Ford as well as Chrysler are all abandoning cars. These companies would rather do without the UAW than keep these workers. Interesting how GM is going to build the Blazer in Mexico.
GM, and Ford as well as Chrysler are all abandoning cars. These companies would rather do without the UAW than keep these workers. Interesting how GM is going to build the Blazer in Mexico.
12-04-18, 02:13 PM
#162
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Nobody said it has to be a UAW plant or even GM. There are other automobiles manufactured in Ontario, including the Ford Edge, Dodge Caravan/Pacifica, Chrysler 300/Dodge Charger and Challenger. The Camaro is still made in Ontario as well. Transferable skills is what this is about, not specific job task.
12-04-18, 02:15 PM
#163
Lexus Champion
And she cares why? Again, she doesn't work for those politicians, she works for the shareholders of the GM corporation. Politicians can be pissed off all they want, they can't do anything about it, nor should they be able to.
So what rationale do you have for this statement, other than Bob Lutz liking the cars that you like?
So what rationale do you have for this statement, other than Bob Lutz liking the cars that you like?
There is an interesting story about Mary Barra when she ran the Hamtramck plant to which mmarshall alluded to earlier. When she got there the plant was a mess, and she needed to straighten it out and get costs and quality under control. At Christmas time, she told the UAW that the electricity bills were out of control and that the Christmas lights on the trees lining the driveway had to be turned off. The UAW rep was aghast about this. Eventually she and the UAW settled on a 50/50 split to pay the cost of those lights being on.
12-04-18, 02:21 PM
#164
Lexus Fanatic
I'm not going to say I'm "in favor" of it, because I like sedans, and in particular I'm sad to see Cadillac loose the CT6 (Lacrosse etc I couldn't care less about), but I 100% understand why they did this.
12-04-18, 02:21 PM
#165
Lexus Champion
And, though generally a good manager up to now, I don't think that, overall, she's been the equal of Bob Lutz, when he was at GM. Lutz himself liked big Buick sedans.....in fact, he dumped his own personal Cadillac for a Lucerne when it first came out. I have not heard him make any comments in public about this latest move, but I sense that he is not pleased with the move to cancel so many big sedans.
Everyone and their mother has an opinion about the news. Unions, politicians, and employees are up in arms. However, former General Motors Vice Chairman Bob Lutz added a pinch of economic reality to the conversation yesterday when he appeared on CNBC.
Bob Lutz called GM’s transformative decision “not silly at all.” Adding, “the hard fact is in North America…passenger cars are simply not in demand.” And he’s not wrong.
“This is just economic reality, and it’ll hit everybody,” Lutz said in the interview. “It’s also a sign of changing times as demand shifts from cars.”
Bob Lutz also added that many of the laid-off employees would likely have new jobs available at other plants producing crossovers, SUVs, and trucks, as production in those facilities needs expanding to meet the growing demand. Many of the facilities GM wants to close, Lutz said, were “one-shift” facilities “limping along” with “low demand” and “short work weeks.” He added that many of the union workers would have job offers from other plants.
Last edited by JDR76; 12-04-18 at 02:25 PM.