GM closing Ontario, Detroit, and Ohio factories
12-01-18, 06:40 AM
#106
Lexus Fanatic
Again, how many have been in a factory recently? Not gonna dime them out, but there are unionized factories in the USA, with 100% legal immigrant workers. they make less, and add to the bottom line. Personally, this is not the spirit of made in USA, to me. Doesn't pass muster.
Nor are certain unionized places where you walk in and nobody is doing anything nor helping customers.
the spirit is where an airline says we will now board veterans and those with small children, and people appreciate it but keep their normal place in line.
The whole factory thing is we want bonafide people to have good jobs and support their families. Talk to a landscaping co. owner who has an all American crew, yet nobody comes back to work after lunch and his reputation suffers.
It really isn't as simple as many make it out to be.
But my Snap On tools, I'll play the game. It doesn't say made in USA and I'll be at Harbor Freight.
Nor are certain unionized places where you walk in and nobody is doing anything nor helping customers.
the spirit is where an airline says we will now board veterans and those with small children, and people appreciate it but keep their normal place in line.
The whole factory thing is we want bonafide people to have good jobs and support their families. Talk to a landscaping co. owner who has an all American crew, yet nobody comes back to work after lunch and his reputation suffers.
It really isn't as simple as many make it out to be.
But my Snap On tools, I'll play the game. It doesn't say made in USA and I'll be at Harbor Freight.
12-01-18, 06:53 AM
#107
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Again, how many have been in a factory recently? Not gonna dime them out, but there are unionized factories in the USA, with 100% legal immigrant workers. they make less, and add to the bottom line. Personally, this is not the spirit of made in USA, to me. Doesn't pass muster.
Nor are certain unionized places where you walk in and nobody is doing anything nor helping customers.
The whole factory thing is we want bonafide people to have good jobs and support their families. Talk to a landscaping co. owner who has an all American crew, yet nobody comes back to work after lunch and his reputation suffers.
It really isn't as simple as many make it out to be.
D
Nor are certain unionized places where you walk in and nobody is doing anything nor helping customers.
The whole factory thing is we want bonafide people to have good jobs and support their families. Talk to a landscaping co. owner who has an all American crew, yet nobody comes back to work after lunch and his reputation suffers.
It really isn't as simple as many make it out to be.
D
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 12-01-18 at 07:04 AM.
12-01-18, 07:05 AM
#108
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Again, how many have been in a factory recently? Not gonna dime them out, but there are unionized factories in the USA, with 100% legal immigrant workers. they make less, and add to the bottom line. Personally, this is not the spirit of made in USA, to me. Doesn't pass muster.
what "doesn't pass muster"?
bottom line, the car biz is extremely competitive and every dollar counts. about Ohio specifically, the cruze and most small cars except corolla don’t sell well today and there's no margin in them anyway, especially if workers expect to be paid a lot. Simple economics. Gm is not a charity.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 12-01-18 at 07:15 AM.
12-01-18, 08:52 AM
#109
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
Are you implying it's not in the spirit of the USA because they're legal immigrants, or being paid less than prior workers, or?
what "doesn't pass muster"?
bottom line, the car biz is extremely competitive and every dollar counts. about Ohio specifically, the cruze and most small cars except corolla don’t sell well today and there's no margin in them anyway, especially if workers expect to be paid a lot. Simple economics. Gm is not a charity.
what "doesn't pass muster"?
bottom line, the car biz is extremely competitive and every dollar counts. about Ohio specifically, the cruze and most small cars except corolla don’t sell well today and there's no margin in them anyway, especially if workers expect to be paid a lot. Simple economics. Gm is not a charity.
12-01-18, 09:16 AM
#110
Lexus Fanatic
12-01-18, 09:23 AM
#111
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
While I 100% agree that these plants should be closed because they are too costly to operate as well as upgrade. There are other factors involved as well. While the GM Oshawa plant is closing, the Canadian government gave Toyota money for their plants on Ontario, and wouldn’t you know, Toyota is now hiring for new production workers.
12-01-18, 10:58 AM
#112
Okay, I get it, it costs a lot for a company to build cars in Michigan than compared to, say, Shanghai.
And yet we have factories owned by Toyota, Honda, and other foreign entities staffed with American workers in places like North Carolina that are doing very well, thank you.
So I think if Trump says, "Hey, GM, build cars here in North America or it will cost you dearly," he has a point. The other car companies can do it. If it's simply a question of high overhead due to unrealistic pension promises, well, that's a shame, but now what? It's like that old Mary Poppins line: "It's a pie crust promise--easily made, easily broken."
And yet we have factories owned by Toyota, Honda, and other foreign entities staffed with American workers in places like North Carolina that are doing very well, thank you.
So I think if Trump says, "Hey, GM, build cars here in North America or it will cost you dearly," he has a point. The other car companies can do it. If it's simply a question of high overhead due to unrealistic pension promises, well, that's a shame, but now what? It's like that old Mary Poppins line: "It's a pie crust promise--easily made, easily broken."
12-01-18, 11:03 AM
#113
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Okay, I get it, it costs a lot for a company to build cars in Michigan than compared to, say, Shanghai.
And yet we have factories owned by Toyota, Honda, and other foreign entities staffed with American workers in places like North Carolina that are doing very well, thank you.
So I think if Trump says, "Hey, GM, build cars here in North America or it will cost you dearly," he has a point. The other car companies can do it. If it's simply a question of high overhead due to unrealistic pension promises, well, that's a shame, but now what? It's like that old Mary Poppins line: "It's a pie crust promise--easily made, easily broken."
And yet we have factories owned by Toyota, Honda, and other foreign entities staffed with American workers in places like North Carolina that are doing very well, thank you.
So I think if Trump says, "Hey, GM, build cars here in North America or it will cost you dearly," he has a point. The other car companies can do it. If it's simply a question of high overhead due to unrealistic pension promises, well, that's a shame, but now what? It's like that old Mary Poppins line: "It's a pie crust promise--easily made, easily broken."
12-01-18, 03:15 PM
#114
Pole Position
Okay, I get it, it costs a lot for a company to build cars in Michigan than compared to, say, Shanghai.
And yet we have factories owned by Toyota, Honda, and other foreign entities staffed with American workers in places like North Carolina that are doing very well, thank you.
So I think if Trump says, "Hey, GM, build cars here in North America or it will cost you dearly," he has a point. The other car companies can do it. If it's simply a question of high overhead due to unrealistic pension promises, well, that's a shame, but now what? It's like that old Mary Poppins line: "It's a pie crust promise--easily made, easily broken."
And yet we have factories owned by Toyota, Honda, and other foreign entities staffed with American workers in places like North Carolina that are doing very well, thank you.
So I think if Trump says, "Hey, GM, build cars here in North America or it will cost you dearly," he has a point. The other car companies can do it. If it's simply a question of high overhead due to unrealistic pension promises, well, that's a shame, but now what? It's like that old Mary Poppins line: "It's a pie crust promise--easily made, easily broken."
12-01-18, 05:18 PM
#118
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I disagree. If you follow the past and what the UAW did to the big three, you might think otherwise. Toyota is hiring today in Ontario for the production line, GM is closing the plant and laying off UAW workers, all the while GM will build the Blazer in Mexico. People also are unaware GM is also hiring for the innovation center in Oshawa, these would be non union workers.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 12-01-18 at 05:21 PM.
12-01-18, 05:46 PM
#119
Lexus Fanatic
It can be argued that the earliest problems with GM in the modern age, and what started it down, were not union-related at all, but originated with the ill-fated Corvair, which was poorly-designed, poorly-engineered, and poorly-built, injuring and killing a number of people with its squirrelly, dangerous handling and carbon-monoxide-prone heater/exhaust system. The ill-fated Vega, which followed it less then a decade later, was another disaster, and more disasters soon followed....particularly from Oldsmobile and Cadillac. But that's not the unions' fault.....that was management and the designers/marketers.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-01-18 at 05:55 PM.
12-01-18, 06:20 PM
#120
Lexus Champion
The issue is, most people today do not want to do these types of jobs. Manufacturing, making steel, coal making etc are not jobs people want to really do. The US and Canada, (I group them together) has become a service based economy. Most people who are young do not the above. The real facts are, automation is the biggest job killer to manufacturing job losses.