bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Venza was a station wagon... this is quite different, somewhat between a rav4 a 4runner and a highlander.

All4Lexus

Toyota was a head of it's time with the Venza as a crossover entry -- nearly pulled a Subaru Outback move on the crossover segment (meaning it's not at official height for a SUV, and disguised as a suv like wagon). That was a blast from the past. It wasn't a car and not quite a suv and got lost in the marketing. It shows that Subaru kept being persistent and now has offered a longer type SUV or a taller type SUV choice (forester). The interiors of this car are similar to the early RX350 series. Dated yet a reliable road runner. Not sure why it died a graceful death after the first generation, but it shows a pattern of Toyota doing a car generation of 6-8 years and see how the market responds to push a 2nd generation design on it. Sales wasn't bonanza due to RX series selling like hotcakes. Thus toyota nips this line up over more sales of RX and RAV4. Now we have the NX and UX series for consideration.

Note: Venza's sales peaked in 2012:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...sales-figures/

compare to RX:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...sales-figures/
(which started to have a major sales surge of 20k units in MY2012 and sustained over 100k sales yearly since 2012)

The elephant in the room continues to loom large... what will happen to the RX and GS line up? A design platform lasting 8 years in the middle of a car tech revolution makes it rather outdated quickly. The Passport emerging at this time shows Honda wants to step in and make a market statement with a good looking but not too boring car. I bet this will be more successful than '18-'19 Accords blunted nose grill redesign which to this day is far uglier than any spindle grill conceived. Toyota cannot continue to keep putting lipstick on the RX and GS, and dress it up to look better than its competition. By continuing it's current generation into extended life mode with no upcoming redesign means any buyers will think hard and twice before buying. Maybe we will all be surprised by Toyota to see a limitless version of the Venza (low sexy suv morphing into the VX line up) and an updated high sexy RX with perhaps two engine options. Subaru pulled this trick off giving buyers a meaningful choice btw Outback, Forester, and successful Ascent. (Ascent by the way is a far more versatile 3 row SUV than the extended RX called RXL). Set the alarm clock to 2 years down the road and wake me up when Toyotas misguided train wreck (or jam of UX/NX/RX/RXL/GX/GS is sorted out with clearer purpose). Lexus did sort out the sedan market before it's too late with refreshed ES (which still screams with hint's of a 'baby LS' in similar exterior styling) and LS series. The upcoming year without doubt is a big one for Lexus/Toyota to be a relevant car company for the 2020 decade of cars. The real reason is not just because of the new up and comers like Passport, CX5 Signature, XC40, RDX, Ascent models (or similar types of SUV's) -- but the great giant sucking sound Tesla will generate with the soon to be revealed Model Y (cross over SUV). Either you have a exciting car people want to buy or you're dead in the water. The current tech oriented SUV's are positioned to stay relevant because it is a real buyers choice right now and a more affordable one. Honda Passport comes at a perfect time to be relevant.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

ok well this thread isn't really about toyota, but i imagine their demographics keep getting older and older.

honda tries to make more youthful designs in my opinion.

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

I took the Ody in because they messed something up during some recall work I had done and played around with the Passport they had in the showroom. It was an Elite and it was pretty nice! Seats were comfortable, infotainment was very similar to what I have in the Ody. Should sell well for those that don't need the third row

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

What is the new Camry? New Corolla? New RAV4? C-HR? All are pretty chic looking. Nissan designs are pretty trendy. Subaru a little safer/softer, but I'd wager all of these automakers are the same.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

^^ agree new corolla is a nice refresh (it's not all new).

new camry is bit like a maxima, maybe trying to hard to look sporty.

new rav4 is trying to look 'off-roady' and 'tough'... maybe it'll work with younger buyers, i don't know.

c-hr is a pile of ugly slow junk.

mmarshall

Agreed.....Camrys are not supposed to be sport sedans. They sold at their best when they were vanilla, and rode and drove like it.

Can't argue with its sales figures, though.

Agreed. Worst new Toyota product since the Echo.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I mentioned all those simply because you said youthful designs. Sure the C-HR is slow / ugly, but it's 'chic'. Is the Nissan Kicks or Honda HR-V any better? All automakers will have demographics that get older and older which is why we're getting an infusion of technology and compromising styling.

Toys4RJill

mmarshall

Well, you got my curiosity up, Jill. I'll have to check it out. On errands, I'll be around several local Honda shops in the next few days. I've said before (and I still feel this way), that, today, Hondas and the Korean makes (Kia, Hyundai, Genesis) come from the factory more tightly screwed-together than any other mass-produced makes, though Toyota and Lexus seem to have the best long-term reliability. Hondas are built like Swiss watches at the plant, but, lately, have had less-reliable drivetrains than in past years.

I probably won't have a chance to drive a Passport off-road, but, if its Boonie-performance is as good as some reviewers claim it is, then the biggest loser will more likely be Jeep, not GM.

Toys4RJill

sorptd

sorptd

evident

This vehicle indeed has the looks. Also love the name too.

mmarshall

Looked at a Passport today.











I stopped at a local Honda shop today and gave the Passport a static-checkout, on a jet-black one inside the showroom, and a couple of others parked outside, though I also had other errands to do today, and didn't have time for a formal test-drive. But, some of you here on Car Chat had gotten my curiosity up, and I wanted to at least take a cursory look at it. I'll do at least an informal write-up...not enough for an actual review (or to start a new thread), but just my general impressions.


First, on the jet-black Elite AWD (43K) model inside, the black paint job was absolutely stunning....probably the best black paint job I've seen in years. Black is a notoriously hard color to do without an orange-peel texture, but this paint was virtually as smooth as a mirror...no orange peel that my eyes, even with 20/20 corrected glasses (borderline 20/15), could detect. From what I've seen, not even Lexus and Audi, both known for smooth paint jobs, can do black this well. The other colors (at least the few I looked at) were also done quite well, but that black, especially detailed for the showroom, knocks your socks off. Not that I actually like black.....I don't, and never have, for several reasons, but, if you are going to do black, then at least do it right. Honda, on the Passport. did.

I was also impressed with the door-solidness (nice thunks upon closing), the amount of space-efficiency inside (tall roofline, front and rear, even under the sunroof, with plenty of headroom, though I may have lost a little height over the years with age and spinal-compression), front-seat comfort, and how they designed the rear cargo area. The front seats were comfortably-shaped, but the padding was too firm for my tastes.....of course, I've been spoiled by the Lacrosse's Cush-Tush seats, and almost everything else, compared to them, seems too firm. The cargo area was cleverly-designed, and well-finished with quality materials...a solid snap-lever releases the nicely-carpeted swing-up floor panel, and underneath is a nice sub-compartment for carrying things, and at least a decent temporary spare tire....no run-flats or compressed-air-bottles. There is a small cubby-compartment in the wall on the left side, with a power-outlet, but I don't remember if there was also one on the right. The rear hatch unlatches, with the fob nearby, if you kick your foot under the bumper, Ford-style.

I was not as well-impressed with the general interior layout/design and trim, which I didn't think was particularly plush or upscale-looking, even in the top-line Elite model. The materials themselves were OK (in fact, in some ways, better than average)...but, IMO, like on some other new Honda products today, not quite up to the solidness of the unbreakable Hondas of, say, the 1990s. And, for you, Jill, the power-window controls DID have plastic center-dividers for the switches LOL....a number of posters used up almost a whole thread in Car Chat discussing if that was considered cost-cutting or not. The exterior trim and hardware, IMO, was also not up some past Hondas, particularly the swivel-side-mirrors, which did not have as solid or smooth a feel in their swivel/snap action as Hondas once did. I also was not impressed with the underhood layout....manual prop-rod for the hood, plastic covers over notably the engine but much of the underhood itself, and the engine block buried in the center, under covers all around it. I also was not impressed with the 20" wheels/tires, which I thought ware awkwardly-large, even with the exposed wheel-well gaps, and the tires which looked a little too-low-profle for good off-road capability.

I may (?) go back for a test-drive, but, aside from the mirror-like black paint job and the nicely-designed cargo area, I've seen what IMO are nicer SUVs for the money....particularly from Kia. I also like the new GMC Acadia, which, IMO, has a nicer interior and some very handsome styling inside and out.