Declining sales of anything without 'utility' in its description
12-05-18, 12:15 PM
#151
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
. I knew that many would disagree with me....doesn't bother me. I've been in the minority-view before, and am not intimidated when that is the case....I'm used to it.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-05-18 at 12:47 PM.
12-05-18, 12:43 PM
#152
Super Moderator
Car (as in not SUV) sales are down dramatically in November:
Americans continued ugly breakup with passenger cars in November as auto sales decline
Highlights:
Americans continued ugly breakup with passenger cars in November as auto sales decline
Highlights:
One consistent trend is fading demand for cars. Sales of compacts fell 18.4 percent in November and sales of midsize cars declined 15 percent, according to *** Automotive.
But sales of compact SUVs and crossovers rose 11.6 percent and sales of midsize SUVs and crossovers increased 11.7 percent.
But sales of compact SUVs and crossovers rose 11.6 percent and sales of midsize SUVs and crossovers increased 11.7 percent.
At Honda, for example, November sales fell 9.5 percent, including a 12.6 percent decline in cars.
And at Toyota, car sales declined 17.3 percent, including sharp drops for the Camry and Prius. Overall, Toyota's sales were down 0.6 percent.
Ford's sales fell 6.9 percent, hurt by declining passenger cars, and Fiat Chrysler's sales rose 17 percent, powered by Jeep's strong performance and increased sales to fleet customers.
And at Toyota, car sales declined 17.3 percent, including sharp drops for the Camry and Prius. Overall, Toyota's sales were down 0.6 percent.
Ford's sales fell 6.9 percent, hurt by declining passenger cars, and Fiat Chrysler's sales rose 17 percent, powered by Jeep's strong performance and increased sales to fleet customers.
Ford's passenger-car sales fell 19.5 percent.
The company's Jeep, Ram, Dodge and Alfa Romeo brands posted increases of 11.8 percent, 43.5 percent, 15.1 percent and 35.9 percent, respectively.
The Chrysler and Fiat brands declined 20.7 percent and 24.5 percent, respectively.
Jeep's surging popularity is key to Fiat Chrysler's hot streak. The Jeep Wrangler, Cherokee and Compass each posted sales increases of more than 20 percent.
Meanwhile, the Ram pickup truck enjoyed a strong month, with sales up 41.2 percent.
The Chrysler and Fiat brands declined 20.7 percent and 24.5 percent, respectively.
Jeep's surging popularity is key to Fiat Chrysler's hot streak. The Jeep Wrangler, Cherokee and Compass each posted sales increases of more than 20 percent.
Meanwhile, the Ram pickup truck enjoyed a strong month, with sales up 41.2 percent.
[Toyota's] passenger car sales declined 17.3 percent, while the rest of its lineup rose 10.6 percent.
[T]he Camry sedan plummeted 29.9 percent to 24,545, and the Prius hybrid fell 26.3 percent to 6,008.
[T]he Camry sedan plummeted 29.9 percent to 24,545, and the Prius hybrid fell 26.3 percent to 6,008.
Overall, [Nissan's] car sales plunged 33.3 percent. Sales of pickups, SUVs andcrossovers fell 8.4 percent.
Last edited by geko29; 12-05-18 at 12:52 PM.
12-05-18, 01:04 PM
#153
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
fixed that for you. 
well if it happens often enough, one should check their assumptions, premises, analysis, biases maybe. 
i still don't get what the 'great war' is. as geko points out, sedans are down overall, more consumers prefer cuvs/suvs/trucks than ever... no war, just changing consumer preference and how cuvs/suvs/trucks have become more 'car-like' more efficient, more innovative, and yes, 'nice-driving' to use your term.
I've been in the minority-view before, and am not intimidated when that is the case....I'm used to it.
i still don't get what the 'great war' is. as geko points out, sedans are down overall, more consumers prefer cuvs/suvs/trucks than ever... no war, just changing consumer preference and how cuvs/suvs/trucks have become more 'car-like' more efficient, more innovative, and yes, 'nice-driving' to use your term.
12-05-18, 01:07 PM
#154
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
fixed that for you.
well if it happens often enough, one should check their assumptions, premises, analysis, biases maybe.
i still don't get what the 'great war' is. as geko points out, sedans are down overall, more consumers prefer cuvs/suvs/trucks than ever... no war, just changing consumer preference and how cuvs/suvs/trucks have become more 'car-like' more efficient, more innovative, and yes, 'nice-driving' to use your term.
well if it happens often enough, one should check their assumptions, premises, analysis, biases maybe.
i still don't get what the 'great war' is. as geko points out, sedans are down overall, more consumers prefer cuvs/suvs/trucks than ever... no war, just changing consumer preference and how cuvs/suvs/trucks have become more 'car-like' more efficient, more innovative, and yes, 'nice-driving' to use your term.
It was not a literal term "war" that I was using, but a symbolic term for rejection.
There are a couple of those in the thread that more or less see it the way I do, but, yes, I understand the vast majority don't. Doesn't faze me a bit. My life goes on, and so does theirs.
12-05-18, 01:17 PM
#155
Lexus Fanatic
But your argument still circles around the idea that the auto industry is "rejecting" sedans, when its CONSUMERS who are rejecting them.
01-19-19, 07:27 AM
#157
Lexus Fanatic
Not exactly a large sedan. But another GM model might be getting cut. https://www.motor1.com/news/301690/c...irement-rumor/
01-19-19, 07:28 AM
#158
Lexus Fanatic
No loss there lol. I had one as a rental one time, terrible car.
01-19-19, 11:21 AM
#159
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I guess so, comparing it to a Lexus LS. But it you compare it to most of its competitors, (Yaris, Fit, Rio, etc.....), aside from the quirky dash/gauge-panel, I found it to be one of the best-driving cars in its class, with good sound insulation and ride comfort. Probably would have been my first choice if I was shopping in that class.
And if you think the Sonic was bad, just compare it to its Aveo predecessor. The top-trim level of the Aveo (I did a review on it) had a nice interior, but drove like an insulated Kiddie-Car. The bare-bones, basic Aveo (with a price under 10K) drove like an UN-insulated Kiddie-Car LOL.
01-19-19, 12:34 PM
#160
Lexus Fanatic
I'm not comparing it to the LS, that would be silly. True though, I haven't spent a lot of time in other cars in that specific segment. If thats the best driving car in it, thats probably for the best lol
01-19-19, 02:42 PM
#161
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I consider it (arguably) the best-driving small, entry-level subcompact sedan/hatchback in the American market mostly because its high points (noise isolation and ride comfort) are things that vehicles in this segment usually lack. It's got its quirks, though....I've never liked the motorcycle-type dash/gauges, and, on the hatchback, with the rear seat raised, the cargo area is a joke...the rear overhang is simply too short.
01-19-19, 04:40 PM
#162
Lexus Fanatic
Then certainly, best to avoid the entry level subcompact sedan market, as the best vehicle in its class is still a terrible car.
01-19-19, 04:44 PM
#163
Lexus Fanatic
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What's most bothersome to me regarding sedan cuts are the ones being cut that sell quite well. Particularly the Fusion and Focus have consistently sold very well but Ford put them on the chopping block because of limited profit margins. Yes, the business is primarily profit motivated but you also can't just give up major segments of the industry because profits aren't as high as your trucks and SUV's. The Fusion sold way more than the Mazda 6 for example yet Mazda has no plans to kill the 6. Car companies can't be driven purely on profit but about flexibility when the market shifts, not giving competition total dominance in segments, total brand appeal, and many other factors. Dropping strong sellers is just plain stupid.
01-19-19, 04:49 PM
#164
Lexus Fanatic
What's most bothersome to me regarding sedan cuts are the ones being cut that sell quite well. Particularly the Fusion and Focus have consistently sold very well but Ford put them on the chopping block because of limited profit margins. Yes, the business is primarily profit motivated but you also can't just give up major segments of the industry because profits aren't as high as your trucks and SUV's. The Fusion sold way more than the Mazda 6 for example yet Mazda has no plans to kill the 6. Car companies can't be driven purely on profit but about flexibility when the market shifts, not giving competition total dominance in segments, total brand appeal, and many other factors. Dropping strong sellers is just plain stupid.
01-19-19, 04:55 PM
#165
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Yes, if one is used to full-size cars, then one is not likely to be satisfied with the comfort level of a small car (though in some ways the Buick Verano was one of the few exceptions, and would have been even more comfortable with softer tires). During the first gas crisis, though, in the early-mid-70s, I downsized from a big Buick and Chrysler to a compact slant-six Plymouth without complaining....and drove small cars for years after that. Small cars also are, of course, much easier to park and maneuver at close-quarters than full-sizers......which can be important when you have you get in and out of the undersized, inadequate parking lots in some of today's businesses. But, to be honest, I simply drove them for too many years....I've become addicted to size and comfort once again.
