Declining sales of anything without 'utility' in its description
09-29-19, 07:37 PM
#361
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I'm not going to devote or sidetrack the whole thread to just one city or hill, but just one question....have you ever been to Uniontown, on 40? That hill is famous for a reason...and you will find out why if you have ever sampled it.
09-29-19, 07:50 PM
#362
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
09-29-19, 08:04 PM
#363
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Respectfully, I have to disagree. I've sampled some of the most advanced automatic and other clutchless transmissions on the market, and most of them today are set up for fuel-economy and CAFE ratings rather than for best control on hills. That's fine for stretching one's gas dollars, but it can, under some circumstances (eve with so-called Grade-Logic) make engines lug while going uphill, by not downshifting when needed. Manual control allows the driver, if and when needed, to keep the unit in a lower gear when it makes sense. In fact, that's the main reason paddle-switches, bump-levers, shift-buttons, and other manual gear controls are even put into vehicles by the engineers in the first place.....the computers that govern shift-characteristics can't, and don't, always figure out what is best at any given moment.
Anyway, way off topic from the industry moving more to crossovers and utes.
09-29-19, 08:13 PM
#364
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
My g90 has sport, comfort (i think or ‘normal’), eco, and ‘individual’. If i switch the sport, the car is definitely more responsive and downshifts INSTANTLY. Eco is the opposite. And on my car at least, the modes also link to the suspension, steering, as well as the transmission, so in sport mode the handling is more precise and in comfort mode it’s more buick like with more up/down travel in the suspension. Individual lets you set a custom setup. Anyway, that’s why i don’t need to use paddle shifters.
What you are simply doing is shifting the transmission's programmer instead of the actual gears itself.
Anyway, way off topic from the industry moving more to crossovers and utes.
09-30-19, 05:17 AM
#365
Super Moderator
On steep hills, you should be downshifting to help control your speed without constantly being on the brakes. There are a variety of methods, but I tend to select a gear that will allow me to maintain my desired speed with a firm push on the brake pedal for one second every 10 seconds or so.
09-30-19, 05:20 AM
#366
Lexus Fanatic
Well then you're doing it wrong. On steep hills, you should be downshifting to help control your speed without constantly being on the brakes. There are a variety of methods, but I tend to select a gear that will allow me to maintain my desired speed with a firm push on the brake pedal for one second every 10 seconds or so.
On steep hills, you should be downshifting to help control your speed without constantly being on the brakes. There are a variety of methods, but I tend to select a gear that will allow me to maintain my desired speed with a firm push on the brake pedal for one second every 10 seconds or so.Last edited by Toys4RJill; 09-30-19 at 05:51 AM.
09-30-19, 06:05 AM
#367
Super Moderator
Not on an automatic. Average people have no idea how this stuff works. Not all cars are designed to shift like you can with paddle shifters. Not doing it wrong either, the driver handbook would never suggest this for an automatic transmission. (Not all are the same either)
Here is the entry from my 2011 BMW without paddle shifters:
Originally Posted by BMW
To prevent overheating and the resulting reduced efficiency of the brake system, drive long or steep downhill gradients in the gear in which the least braking is required. Even light but consistent brake pressure can lead to high temperatures, brake wear and possibly even brake failure.< You can increase the engine's braking effect by shifting down, all the way to first gear if necessary. This strategy helps you avoid placing excessive loads on the brake system. Downshifting in manual mode of the automatic transmission, refer to page 59
Originally Posted by Audi
Hill descent control activates when the transmission is in the "D" or "S" position and you press the brake pedal. The transmission automatically selects a gear that is suitable for the hill. Hill descent control tries to maintain the speed achieved at the time of braking, within physical and technical limitations. It may still be necessary to adjust the speed with the brake pedal.
Originally Posted by Lexus
D: Normal Driving
4: Postion for engine braking
3,2: Position for more powerful engine braking
L: Position for maximum engine braking
Use engine braking (downshift) to maintain a safe speed when driving down a
steep hill.
Using the brakes continuously may cause the brakes to overheat and lose effec-
tiveness.
4: Postion for engine braking
3,2: Position for more powerful engine braking
L: Position for maximum engine braking
Use engine braking (downshift) to maintain a safe speed when driving down a
steep hill.
Using the brakes continuously may cause the brakes to overheat and lose effec-
tiveness.
Originally Posted by Toyota
(c) Using engine braking
- To use engine braking, you can downshift the transmission as follows: Shift into the 4" position. The transmission will downshift to fourth gear and engine braking will be enabled. Shift into the 3" position. The transmission will downshift to third gear when the vehicle speed drops down to or lower than the following speed, and stronger engine braking will be enabled.
- Shift into the 2" position. The transmission will downshift to second gear when the vehicle speed drops down to or lower than the following speed, and stronger engine braking will be enabled.
- Shift into the L" position. The transmission will downshift to first gear when the vehicle speed drops down to or lower than the following speed, and maximum engine braking will be enabled.
Originally Posted by Toyota
●Use engine braking (downshift) to maintain a safe speed when driving down a steep hill. Using the brakes continuously may cause the brakes to overheat and lose effectiveness. (P. 172, 174, 176, 180)
09-30-19, 06:50 AM
#368
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Yes, sometimes even on an automatic. Transmission-brains cannot analyze or automatically respond every possible driving situation that comes up. That is why manual-shifters for them are put into them in the first place.
....and that's why you have signs like this:
Those who understand the need for compression braking don't have to be told to downshift.
Average people have no idea how this stuff works.
Those who understand the need for compression braking don't have to be told to downshift.
09-30-19, 06:56 AM
#369
Lexus Fanatic
Never is a very strong word, and completely wrong. It's been in the instruction manual for literally every single automatic I've ever owned. In fact, it's the primary reason why most automatics had gear selection options beyond D in the age before paddle shifters. Just like your 4-runner does.
Here is the entry from my 2011 BMW without paddle shifters:
From my wife's Audi, with paddle shifters. But it actually does it for you:
Our old RX350 with the zigzag pattern actually described the purpose of each selection option:
Here is the section from your own 4th generation 4-runner:
Note, I cut out an extensive list after each position of what the maximum speed is in each gear, with each engine and driveline combination. Now, I'm not sure what year your Corolla is, so I guessed 2015 but I suspect all years are similar:
But I guess you're right, the manual would never suggest this.
Here is the entry from my 2011 BMW without paddle shifters:
From my wife's Audi, with paddle shifters. But it actually does it for you:
Our old RX350 with the zigzag pattern actually described the purpose of each selection option:
Here is the section from your own 4th generation 4-runner:
Note, I cut out an extensive list after each position of what the maximum speed is in each gear, with each engine and driveline combination. Now, I'm not sure what year your Corolla is, so I guessed 2015 but I suspect all years are similar:
But I guess you're right, the manual would never suggest this.
09-30-19, 06:56 AM
#370
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Anyhow, closer to topic, I'll be checking out a new Acadia this week. Probably won't do a full write-up (much of its mechanicals and instrumentation is the same as my Lacrosse)...but I just want to sample the latest version, with the latest improvements. It's currently the only GM SUV that I have any significant interest in. Also plan to check out the Lincoln Corsair when it debuts.....the only Ford SUV I have any real interest in.
09-30-19, 09:26 AM
#371
Lexus Champion
Tex, since you're from Pennsylvania, I don't know if you have ever been to Uniontown, on U.S. 40, in the southwestern part of the state.....admittedly a long way from Philly. There is a famous hill on Route 40 there, coming down Chestnut Ridge (Summit Mountain)...a roughly 1500-foot drop in three miles, with an average 10% grade. That hill, with a breathtaking view of the city from the top, is no joke, and requires some serious engine-braking from the tranny all the way down.....doubly so for trucks, where is an emergency Runaway Ramp for trucks and a very high accident rate. As a young kid many years ago, it scared the ****** out of me the first time I attempted it alone, and every vehicle I attempted it with since, manual or automatic, needed significant driver action to downshift. You either do that or (very quickly) let gravity get the best of you. But I always liked 40...a very interesting road to drive on the way west to Ohio, where I have relatives.
09-30-19, 10:21 AM
#372
Lexus Test Driver
Not on an automatic. Average people have no idea how this stuff works. Not all cars are designed to shift like you can with paddle shifters. Not doing it wrong either, the driver handbook would never suggest this for an automatic transmission. (Not all are the same either) If you were to shift to a lower gear, you should do it before the hill. My 4Runner already has downhill logic assist where you hit the brake once and it will downshift on a long hill. I think Toyota does this a little different with their cars
09-30-19, 11:58 AM
#373
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
My truck has this in addition to being able to set a top gear that it won't shift past.
09-30-19, 12:02 PM
#374
Lexus Test Driver
No, that's a different feature, although it is very handy.
If you're running the truck in Drive, and you use the +/- button on the shifter, you can make it shift down and stay out of the upper gears. It'll lock out all the way down to 1st. There's a gear indicator on the dash that not only shows you what gear you're in, but which gears are not locked out.
Tow/Haul just changes the transmission strategy so it holds gears longer and downshifts earlier for engine braking. I find it to be VERY effective out here in the west where you're always going up or down a hill.
If you're running the truck in Drive, and you use the +/- button on the shifter, you can make it shift down and stay out of the upper gears. It'll lock out all the way down to 1st. There's a gear indicator on the dash that not only shows you what gear you're in, but which gears are not locked out.
Tow/Haul just changes the transmission strategy so it holds gears longer and downshifts earlier for engine braking. I find it to be VERY effective out here in the west where you're always going up or down a hill.
09-30-19, 12:21 PM
#375
Lexus Fanatic
Never is a very strong word, and completely wrong. It's been in the instruction manual for literally every single automatic I've ever owned. In fact, it's the primary reason why most automatics had gear selection options beyond D in the age before paddle shifters. Just like your 4-runner does.
Here is the entry from my 2011 BMW without paddle shifters:
From my wife's Audi, with paddle shifters. But it actually does it for you:
Our old RX350 with the zigzag pattern actually described the purpose of each selection option:
Here is the section from your own 4th generation 4-runner:
Note, I cut out an extensive list after each position of what the maximum speed is in each gear, with each engine and driveline combination. Now, I'm not sure what year your Corolla is, so I guessed 2015 but I suspect all years are similar:
But I guess you're right, the manual would never suggest this.
Here is the entry from my 2011 BMW without paddle shifters:
From my wife's Audi, with paddle shifters. But it actually does it for you:
Our old RX350 with the zigzag pattern actually described the purpose of each selection option:
Here is the section from your own 4th generation 4-runner:
Note, I cut out an extensive list after each position of what the maximum speed is in each gear, with each engine and driveline combination. Now, I'm not sure what year your Corolla is, so I guessed 2015 but I suspect all years are similar:
But I guess you're right, the manual would never suggest this.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 09-30-19 at 12:25 PM.