Declining sales of anything without 'utility' in its description
#61
Lexus Champion
Plex asked:
And you answered:
To which I didn't understand how this was punishing the auto industry.
There are a number of examples, but, recently, Obama probably did the most, by actually placing the Federal Government into a role on GM's board and ordering them to get new management. It was part of the condition of the buyout. But it was Johnson and Nixon, after Ralph Nader's lobbying in the 1960s, that got the Government involved in the first place, with the first Federal safety, emission, and CAFE demands.
Not sure I understand the question.....appears to be apples and oranges. I was not referring to that at all. I wouldn't call the advent of safety-legislation, back in the 1960s (in response to Nader's lobbying) a "punishment" per see, but simple common-sense requirements that the industry should have been doing on their own. Later, though, I thought some of those requirements went too far, and Washington started dictating too much of the design.
#62
Lexus Champion
He can't lay low it's not how he operates. I expect a continued smear campaign by him via twitter of GM CEO and the board along with him blaming his political opponents and the media somehow. The base will believe this and it will be on to the next story. Unfortunately some of them will lose their jobs.
#63
Dysfunctional Veteran
I hear what you are saying, but the newer Avalons aren't cushy enough, and the LS and S-class are two and three times the price. Like it or not, the Lacrosse, even with its faults, was the closest thing to a perfect car for me on the market. The Cadenza and ES350, like the Avalon, are well-made but not quite cushy enough. The MKZ is also nice, but its future is also iffy.
One of three things will probably happen. I will either keep my present Lacrosse and be forced into the used-car market in the future, grab up one of the last remaining new Lacrosses before it is extinct next year, or simply get something else (hopefully, an MKZ) and just give up a little comfort. I don't like the idea, though, of giving GM even another penny of mine for a new vehicle.....they are no longer worthy of it.
One of three things will probably happen. I will either keep my present Lacrosse and be forced into the used-car market in the future, grab up one of the last remaining new Lacrosses before it is extinct next year, or simply get something else (hopefully, an MKZ) and just give up a little comfort. I don't like the idea, though, of giving GM even another penny of mine for a new vehicle.....they are no longer worthy of it.
That's too bad for Bolt sales but if GM wants to double down on EVs, it can't cut the Bolt. They obviously don't think the hybrid path is feasible so they cut the Volt. I guess they are putting all their eggs in the EV market in the future. If this is their decision, they are doing what's right in terms of the restructuring.
Last edited by ArmyofOne; 12-02-18 at 04:58 PM.
#64
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
What ever happened to that EV GM made in like 1996? Wasn't it like decades ahead of its time? Then something killed it off, big oil bought the patent or something?
You're probably talking about the EV-1 Impact. GM leased out a limited number to a select group of customers, then abruptly cancelled the project,. They never really came up with a decent explanation why, but it was noted that that was also a time of rapidly increasing truck/SUV popularity, with little interest in full-electric vehicles. Even the first of the regular gas/electric hybrids (Insight and Prius) in the American market were still a few years ahead.
......a weird-looking car, IMO. It was shaped like a turtle.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-02-18 at 05:31 PM.
#65
Dysfunctional Veteran
^yeah that. So, why, if they could make an EV back then, that worked well enough to be a DD, can't they freaking do it now?
How hard is it to drop the volt/bolt powertrain into a car that isn't so hideously ugly, like a Camaro-type body, or into an Impala-sized sedan? The tech is already there. Just scale it up/down for different applications.
How hard is it to drop the volt/bolt powertrain into a car that isn't so hideously ugly, like a Camaro-type body, or into an Impala-sized sedan? The tech is already there. Just scale it up/down for different applications.
#66
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
https://www.chevrolet.com/previous-y...v-electric-car
into a car that isn't so hideously ugly
The Fusion, BTW, is an excellent mid-sized sedan...though it has had some reliability issues on the gas version (which are less likely with a simpler, full-electric drive train), in general, I have a very high opinion of it.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-02-18 at 06:51 PM.
#67
Lexus Fanatic
This thread is about the war on large cars is it not? Why not just get an Avalon, Toyota is offering many different trims. Not sure how it went off on a EVs and such. I won’t ever miss these large GM behemoths.
#68
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Josh is a great guy......and if he has some legitimate questions about GM's hybrids and electrics, I'm going to answer them, thread or no thread. Besides, he is a moderator, and knows the rules....you don't have to tell him.
Why not just get an Avalon, Toyota is offering many different trims. Not sure how it went off on a EVs and such. I won’t ever miss these large GM behemoths.
#69
Lexus Fanatic
No offense, and I'm not trying to be rude, but please make up your mind. You say, on one hand, how much you liked the Lacrosse and Continental on the review and test-drive, then (imply) that they are nothing but disposable pieces of metal, to be forgotten. Which is it?
#70
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks. My initial shock and anger at GM management is wearing off somewhat....and, in our state, the Governor and Legislature are (apparently) working on new regulations and standards for electric-charging outlets to be installed in condo-developments like mine, many of which have never had them before. We don't currently (no pun intended) have outside outlets available for our small townhouses. Whether they would be installed at State expense, Federal expense, our own condo-board expense, or a combination of the above remains to be seen. That would eventually give me an option I've never had before.....a full-electric or an extended-range hybrid. Hey......might even be able to remain a GM customer with a brand-new Chevy Bolt EV ....though, as Josh points out, a number of today's full-electrics look like something out of Halloween night LOL.
If we do get new outlets, though, to charge electric vehicles, one thing that concerns me would be the kids next door at the high school (and some of the more unruly kids in our own development) coming along and unplugging the cords as pranks. Some kids don't have anything better to do with their spare time than to go around looking for ways to mess things up.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-02-18 at 06:39 PM.
#71
Dysfunctional Veteran
Josh is a great guy......and if he has some legitimate questions about GM's hybrids and electrics, I'm going to answer them, thread or no thread. Besides, he is a moderator, and knows the rules....you don't have to tell him.
No offense, and I'm not trying to be rude, but please make up your mind. You say, on one hand, how much you liked the Lacrosse and Continental on the review and test-drive, then (imply) that they are nothing but disposable pieces of metal, to be forgotten. Which is it?
No offense, and I'm not trying to be rude, but please make up your mind. You say, on one hand, how much you liked the Lacrosse and Continental on the review and test-drive, then (imply) that they are nothing but disposable pieces of metal, to be forgotten. Which is it?
having said that, i wasn't talking about necessarily a hybrid, nor do i want one (at all, good old internal combustion for me, thanks). But why couldn't they make the lacrosse platform an EV or integrate the volt setup into that line?
#72
Lexus Champion
^yeah that. So, why, if they could make an EV back then, that worked well enough to be a DD, can't they freaking do it now?
How hard is it to drop the volt/bolt powertrain into a car that isn't so hideously ugly, like a Camaro-type body, or into an Impala-sized sedan? The tech is already there. Just scale it up/down for different applications.
How hard is it to drop the volt/bolt powertrain into a car that isn't so hideously ugly, like a Camaro-type body, or into an Impala-sized sedan? The tech is already there. Just scale it up/down for different applications.
The Malibu Hybrid uses a similar 2-motor hybrid transmission but a smaller-capacity battery so it is purely a "self-charging" hybrid, not an extended-range electric vehicle (which is how GM describes the Volt).
The CT6 Plug-in uses a similar 2-motor hybrid transmission as the Volt but adapted for RWD use, and a large-capacity battery, giving it an EV range of 50km (30miles). The powertrain is produced in the USA but then shipped to China for final assembly of the whole vehicle.
The Buick LaCrosse Hybrid, for some strange reason, is only a simple, mild hybrid (replacing the starter and alternator with one single electric motor-generator) and does not use the hybrid technology from the Volt.
I do not recall any other GM vehicles that used the 1st-generation Volt's hybrid technology, and GM seems to be reluctant to use the hybrid technology from the 2nd-generation Volt in more vehicles. (In contrast, Ford and, of course, Toyota use their hybrid technology much more widely.) This Voltec hybrid technology won't be lost but the vehicles using it are soon to be gone.
I suppose that GM sees no need for the stop-gap hybrid technology and rather go straight to full electric vehicles.
#73
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
.
The Buick LaCrosse Hybrid, for some strange reason, is only a simple, mild hybrid (replacing the starter and alternator with one single electric motor-generator) and does not use the hybrid technology from the Volt.
Very simple....Cost. That's why the much larger Lacrosse Hybrid starts at only 29K (30K with freight) and the much smaller Volt starts at 33-34K.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-02-18 at 08:45 PM.
#74
Lexus Fanatic
I hear what you are saying, but the newer Avalons aren't cushy enough, and the LS and S-class are two and three times the price. Like it or not, the Lacrosse, even with its faults, was the closest thing to a perfect car for me on the market. The Cadenza and ES350, like the Avalon, are well-made but not quite cushy enough. The MKZ is also nice, but its future is also iffy.
One of three things will probably happen. I will either keep my present Lacrosse and be forced into the used-car market in the future, grab up one of the last remaining new Lacrosses before it is extinct next year, or simply get something else (hopefully, an MKZ) and just give up a little comfort. I don't like the idea, though, of giving GM even another penny of mine for a new vehicle.....they are no longer worthy of it.
One of three things will probably happen. I will either keep my present Lacrosse and be forced into the used-car market in the future, grab up one of the last remaining new Lacrosses before it is extinct next year, or simply get something else (hopefully, an MKZ) and just give up a little comfort. I don't like the idea, though, of giving GM even another penny of mine for a new vehicle.....they are no longer worthy of it.
So you should figure out the perfect spec Lacrosse, get the best deal on one you can, and buy it and keep it.
I also agree with others, there are lots of great riding cars out there nowadays, its just that for you the Lacrosse is an overall package that is perfect. I respect that, you should get the best one you can and just keep it. Get a high spec one and swap your wheels and tires.
#75
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
What you should do is what I did when I saw the end of the Lexus LS as it has always been coming. I found the last one made built the way I wanted, in the colors and spec I wanted...and I bought it. I'm going to take great care of it and just keep it, and lease something else to use for some other utility, not sure whether that will be a sports car or an SUV, we'll see when the lease is up on the LS.
So you should figure out the perfect spec Lacrosse, get the best deal on one you can, and buy it and keep it.
I also agree with others, there are lots of great riding cars out there nowadays, its just that for you the Lacrosse is an overall package that is perfect. I respect that, you should get the best one you can and just keep it. Get a high spec one and swap your wheels and tires.
So you should figure out the perfect spec Lacrosse, get the best deal on one you can, and buy it and keep it.
I also agree with others, there are lots of great riding cars out there nowadays, its just that for you the Lacrosse is an overall package that is perfect. I respect that, you should get the best one you can and just keep it. Get a high spec one and swap your wheels and tires.