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Declining sales of anything without 'utility' in its description

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Old 12-03-18 | 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Exactly my point. The proof is indeed in the pudding.....bad leadership on the part of GM and Ford. It's gotten them into trouble before, and will very likely do so again. And the stock market will not necessarily be able to help them.
so there is no perception problem with GM cars? Just bad leadership?

Last edited by Toys4RJill; 12-03-18 at 04:23 PM.
Old 12-03-18 | 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
sovereign is no perception problem with GM cars? Just bad leadership?
Mary Barra is not an idiot. Up till now, she has actually been a pretty good manager.....in some ways, clearly better than many of her predecessors. But we've seen that happen before...Alan Mulally, for example, at Ford. He also came in at first as quite a good manager, then started making mistakes.
Old 12-03-18 | 04:28 PM
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This was not a mistake...GM has to make these cuts to survive. Nobody WANTS to make these cuts but they have to be made.
Old 12-03-18 | 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Mary Barra is not an idiot. Up till now, she has actually been a pretty good manager.....in some ways, clearly better than many of her predecessors. But we've seen that happen before...Alan Mulally, for example, at Ford. He also came in at first as quite a good manager, then started making mistakes.
This did not answer my question. Is there perception problem or not? IMO there absolutely is a perception problem with American cars in the North American . They are perceived as inferior to the Japanese, this is why they are not selling. Trucks and SUVs by the American manufacturers do not have this perception problem. In China, GM does not have a problem with people perceiving their cars as inferior, they sold over 1M Buicks in china, 200K Cadillacs and about the same for Chevy, yet they don’t have sales of large trucks and suvs. GM has actually been a profitable company since 2010.
Old 12-03-18 | 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
This was not a mistake...GM has to make these cuts to survive. Nobody WANTS to make these cuts but they have to be made.
I don’t know if survive is the right word. Not sure if you agree. But GM has been making lots of money. Their profit was healthy just before the cuts. Questionable management decisions and the UAW is the issue. The Oshawa plant has a capacity of over 1 million units, I can’t possibly imagine GM would close a Mexico plant or a Chinese plant and load up the Oshawa plant with more UAW workers. Oh, and the $1 billion loss because of Trumps steel tariffs sure had an influence on allocating the new Blazer to be built in Mexico.
Old 12-03-18 | 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Better to drink Kool-Aid than laughing-gas.....especially when you are laughing about something you apparently have little knowledge of.
Very little..But you seem to be so well informed...Please continue to spew your extensive knowledge...
Old 12-03-18 | 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
This did not answer my question. Is there perception problem or not? IMO there absolutely is a perception problem with American cars in the North American . They are perceived as inferior to the Japanese, this is why they are not selling. Trucks and SUVs by the American manufacturers do not have this perception problem. In China, GM does not have a problem with people perceiving their cars as inferior, they sold over 1M Buicks in china, 200K Cadillacs and about the same for Chevy, yet they don’t have sales of large trucks and suvs. GM has actually been a profitable company since 2010.
You (at least partly) answered your own question. We do, in fact, have some perception problems in this country, some of which are way outdated. The continuing negative view of a lot of people for Hyundais and Kias (and for some American-brand vehicles) proves it, despite the fact they those two companies have not built junk for some 20 years, and the fact, that, on average, there is little quality-difference now between most American and Asian/European brands. Even the brands at the bottom of the barrel (Jeep, Fiat, Dodge, Mitsubishi, Land-Rover, etc.....) are nothing like the lemons they once were. The Chinese public, in some ways, in today's climate, is actually more intelligent and perceptive than the Americans. That's because they make up their own minds when they buy a vehicle...at least, what their limited incomes allow for them. Here, a lot of us (and, by "us", I don't mean people like here on Car Chat that discuss vehicles every day and know vehicles inside and out), but people who either don't have the time, the desire, or the ability to do their homework, and simply let the news-media dictate to them. And the news-media, of course, is mostly interested in what will be click-bait and bring the most income for them, not necessarily presenting all the facts. Here, for example, Buick is continually derided as an Old Man's brand. The Chinese, in their intelligence, know better....and laugh at us.

Last edited by mmarshall; 12-03-18 at 05:32 PM.
Old 12-03-18 | 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
. We do, in fact, have some perception problems in this country, some of which are way outdated.....
So you agree American cars are perceived as inferior? IMO they absolutely are perceived as such, but not SUVs or trucks. ( note, that does mean I am saying they are no good). I would never ever buy an American brand model. Never. Seen way too many people get burned, including myself and my husband and my parents. Maybe I would lease one, but never would I buy one to own. That is not to say they are no good, my point is, why bother? I have always found GM cars to be pretty appealing, but I just can't get over past or current real or perceived reliability concerns.
Old 12-03-18 | 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
You (at least partly) answered your own question. We do, in fact, have some perception problems in this country, some of which are way outdated. The continuing negative view of a lot of people for Hyundais and Kias (and for some American-brand vehicles) proves it, despite the fact they those two companies have not built junk for some 20 years, and the fact, that, on average, there is little quality-difference now between most American and Asian/European brands. Even the brands at the bottom of the barrel (Jeep, Fiat, Dodge, Mitsubishi, Land-Rover, etc.....) are nothing like the lemons they once were. The Chinese public, in some ways, in today's climate, is actually more intelligent and perceptive than the Americans. That's because they make up their own minds when they buy a vehicle...at least, what their limited incomes allow for them. Here, a lot of us (and, by "us", I don't mean people like here on Car Chat that discuss vehicles every day and know vehicles inside and out), but people who either don't have the time, the desire, or the ability to do their homework, and simply let the news-media dictate to them. And the news-media, of course, is mostly interested in what will be click-bait and bring the most income for them, not necessarily presenting all the facts. Here, for example, Buick is continually derided as an Old Man's brand. The Chinese, in their intelligence, know better....and laugh at us.
So now we're blaming the news media for Buick maintaining its appeal to an older demographic as well as hiding the fact that the Chinese are laughing at us for not supporting the brand. I want to see some footage of Chinese shoppers at a Buick dealership laughing at us. Both a bit of a stretch. C'mon
Old 12-03-18 | 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
So you agree American cars are perceived as inferior?
You were so quick to jump to a conclusion and push your own view that you failed to see what I was saying...it depends on who is doing the perceiving, and what their sources are. The media, in this country, is tremendously powerful, and can skew the view of millions. Some people, though, still think for themselves.
Old 12-03-18 | 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by LexBob2
So now we're blaming the news media for Buick maintaining its appeal to an older demographic as well as hiding the fact that the Chinese are laughing at us for not supporting the brand. I want to see some footage of Chinese shoppers at a Buick dealership laughing at us. Both a bit of a stretch. C'mon
Anybody can make a video.....videos prove little or nothing. Money talks. The Chinese talk (and laugh) with their wallets.....and you can see (with good reason) where those dollars are going. That is not perception, but reality. They buy Buicks because they know a nice product when they see it....even if those Buicks are not as reliable as a typical Lexus.
Old 12-03-18 | 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
You were so quick to jump to a conclusion and push your own view that you failed to see what I was saying...it depends on who is doing the perceiving, and what their sources are. The media, in this country, is tremendously powerful, and can skew the view of millions. Some people, though, still think for themselves.
I disagree, Ford abandoning cars, Chrysler abandoning cars and now GM does mostly the same just goes to show you what consumers want. They don't want American cars. . Toyota and Honda are not abandoning their cars. GM is not eliminating these models in China.
Old 12-03-18 | 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
I disagree, Ford abandoning cars, Chrysler abandoning cars and now GM does mostly the same just goes to show you what consumers want. They don't want American cars. . Toyota and Honda are not abandoning their cars.
.......and their sedans are going to get a least some of the business that GM and Ford is going to lose. Right now, at least to an extent, I admire the Toyota and Honda leadership. They are smart enough to see the handwriting on the wall, and keeping their American-market sedans.....ditto for the Koreans. Just watch....they are going to be the winners here, not GM. And they're also not going to have Trump and Trudeau coming after them.
Old 12-03-18 | 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Anybody can make a video.....videos prove little or nothing. Money talks. The Chinese talk (and laugh) with their wallets.....and you can see (with good reason) where those dollars are going. That is not perception, but reality. They buy Buicks because they know a nice product when they see it....even if those Buicks are not as reliable as a typical Lexus.
I still want proof of them doing their Buick laugh. These days (not like in years past) most Chinese consumers couldn't care less what we think about Buick in particular. They're being made there so their source is in tact. No worries for them.
Old 12-03-18 | 06:19 PM
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They buy Buicks because in China they are free of the stigma they have here.



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