mmarshall

Before the Age of Automation, there was probably more truth to it than there is today. And, if you were not around during the late 1970s through the late 1980s (I don't know your age), you cannot imagine how poorly American cars were assembled during that period, and how much trouble they gave in service. And, before electronic fuel injection came around, many emission-controlled carburetors (and even some pre-emission ones) stalled and stumbled during warm-up, making them sometimes risky to drive in traffic.

JDR76

Oh yes, I remember the horribleness of American built cars of the 70s and 80s. I don't believe there was a connection to the day of the week they were built, though. They were pretty much all horrible, no matter which day of the week they came off the line.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

ok so not sure why you brought it up if you're 'not necessarily sold' on it today. the car business is now HUGELY automated, shift-oriented, and not some archaic, 9-5, hungover on monday, eager to leave on friday situation. let's try to keep to relevant information about this BRAND NEW TOYOTA RAV4, not 'big 3' from the 1970s lore.

i think the 'Age of Automation' started about a century ago.

you say that, but millions of people had a blast driving cars in the '70s and '80s, without major issues, and accepted that they were what they were, not perfect, but even most of those cars were more reliable that what came before... it's just a continuum. my uncle had a '79 cutlass with 4.4L V8 which was an EXCELLENT car, and super comfortable.

the big 3 were certainly cranking out cars with a focus on quantity and cost and not quality, but nevertheless, most cars were STILL reliable for day to day driving. now in foul winter weather carburetors were certainly unreliable but even that affects only say half the country, and even those only for a few months a year. and the japanese were no better, my carbureted honda prelude was very unreliable as far as starting on very cold mornings. warmer weather no issue though. yet my ex's '82 buick skyhawk with throttle body injection started EVERY time in the winter and summer.

but all of this is irrelevant as far as a 2019 RAV4 goes, which will no doubt be supremely reliable.

Vladi

RAVs never had good interiors imo. It's always been a mess.

mmarshall

Well, the OP started the thread based on exactly that issue...sloppy assembly.

Not the type of automation that I (and others) were refering to. You are referring to Henry Ford's first assembly line, for the Model T.



With all due respect, what I wrote, I wrote from experience.

I will admit, however, that one significant reliability issue of the 1960s (breaker-point ignition and regular tune-ups) had pretty much been licked by the mid-70s, with electronic solid-state ignition. Chrysler was the first to offer it, in 1972, as an option....Ford and GM followed a couple of years later. Clearcoat paint was also a enormous advance, but had to wait until the 1980s.


Yes, the Cutlass of that period was one of the better vehicles out there. That is why it was, essentially, the Camry/Accord of the late 1970s...the best-selling sedan (and convertible) in the country. The Chrysler Slant Six was probably the most durable engine (and automatic transmission) but the rest of the car was..........well........

GM was forced into TBI for 1982, on some models, because the carbs on the '80s and '81s had such serious drivability problems. A number of accidents resulted.


Oh, absolutely, Japanese carbs also had their problems. I had a carburated Mazda that was reasonably reliable but simply ran too lean. That is why I stated, may times, that the real answer had to wait for EFI....which, IMO, came about 10 years after when it should have.



Hope so. Toyotas used to be reliable as the sunrise, but more and more of those I know, recently, who own them, are having problems. According to CR, though, they still rank quite high in the reliability department.....Lexus even more so.

However, per your request, I'll revert back to the new RAV-4. I was hoping to have a review of one done by now, but we're still waiting in this area for them to arrive. And we're going to have (another) big rainstorm the next couple of days....I never review paint or exterior fit/finish in the rain. Besides, King Alex (who's already looked at them) does a far better job than I do.

mmarshall

AHA! A few of them just arrived not far from my place. If they aren't already spoken for by customers, I'll try and look at them in the next few days.

spwolf

reading the reviews, it is sooo much better car in every way than old one, including interior which is by far the best improvement... might need to spend little bit extra not to get that dinky smaller size nav though.

LeX2K

The rankings are relative. Due to the seemingly endless increase in complexity there is more to fail, nothing has a 0% failure rate the more components you have the greater the chance of failure.

mmarshall

Doesn't always work out that way, though. Lexus products have a lot of equipment on them, yet, in some cases, are still more reliable than many less-complex vehicles. Much of it depends on the quality of the components that the engineers and designers use in the first place. And, of course, some of it is from the competence of the people on the assembly lines.

LeX2K

You are correct, but compare a new model Lexus to one say made in 2005 I bet the defects and failures on average per vehicle was lower. My winter car is a generation 2 Camry the car is basically impervious to failures of any kind in part I'm sure because there is simply not a whole lot to go wrong and of course the car is built like a Swiss watch. I'd wager the car is more reliable than most new cars.

On the RAV4 interior have not seen on in person yet but I did not like the interior of the outgoing model the passenger space especially was odd the protruding dash piece hits my knees what was Toyota thinking? But people do tend to eggagerate I've read about how awful some interiors are now others are amazeballs, when I actually experience them they are neither horrendous or the greatest thing ever. This particular forum tends to disproportionally dump on Toyota and Lexus for whatever reason.

corradoMR2

This made me think of our short-lived ownership of the '09 Venza V6 (FWD). Had it about a year and couldn't tolerate the terrible panel gaps/fit of the vehicle. Worst I ever owned.

rogerh00

I shopped a 2017 Rav4 and thought the interior was awful. I was hoping this new Gen Rav4 would be better since I want a hybrid and there aren't may in this size. I'm done with the Lexus NX unless the next gen is improved. So what else is there for a mid size hybrid crossover?

EXE46

Is the RAV4 considered midsize? Don't think so, highlander is midsize ala RX350.

rogerh00

I suppose you're right. I don't perceive it as a compact though considering the UX and CHr. The rav4/NX fall in between a compact and midsize.

mmarshall

Did a full-review of the new 2019 RAV-4 today, and agree with Jill that the lower-line versions are cheap and unimpressive inside (except for the big, thick, excellent door-pulls). The top-line Limited version (which I test-drove) is much nicer inside....I'll go into the details in the write-up. Overall, though, the 2019 is a major improvement on the 2018.